Does the computer cheat?

I am playing on tough right, and I was under the impression that computer did not cheat until the very highest levels. Then I go to place my spies on some Korath planets, and I see that planets with 2 slave canyons and one anti-matter plant are producing over 150 military production and about same social. WTF???
8,170 views 12 replies
Reply #1 Top
The AI doesn't cheat on Tough.
It must be the result of some galactic achievement buildings + the AI setting its sliders mostly on military & social production.
Reply #2 Top
I sometimes wonder....

So, I play a game in an Immense galaxy as a Super Adapter. That means I can immediately colonize planets with Toxic and Aquatic environments. From my starting planet, it seems that practically every planet within 50 movement points is either a 0, Barren, Radioactive, Heavy, etc. Everything _but_ Toxic or Aquatic.

So, the next game I play in an Immense galaxy as a Super Isolationist. That means I can immediately settle Barren planets. But from my starting world, everything within 50 movement points is 0, Radioactive, Heavy, Toxic, Aquatic, etc. Everything _but_ Barren.

Think maybe the AI designed the galaxy with my colonization advantages in mind? I certainly do.
Reply #3 Top
Next time, play a lawyer race and sue the AI for cheating! If the game were too easy, you'd stop playing it. Just research the tech that will get you those worlds. On an immense map, it's going to take some time for anyone to find you. OR you can go to the map editor and create your own starting area and see how that works out. ENJOY!!!  :LOL: 
Reply #4 Top
Well, I've got two points on that score:

1) What is your definition of "it's going to take some time"? I'm currently playing my third game of ToA, all of them with Immense galaxies, 7 major opponents and 8 minor races. In all three games, I encountered another major race within 20 turns, with the nearest opponent's colony being with 20 movement points. (Conversely, when I get to the other side of the galaxy many, many turns later, I discover that the area is still largely unsettled. The conclusion, therefore, is that the AI establishes the other racial positions crowding towards the player's position.

2) What's the point of having a Super Ability advantage if you can't/have difficulty using it? If you have a SA that permits you to settle normally uninhabitable planets, but the closest of those are in "enemy territory", what is the effect of exercising that SA? It annoys the opponent, because you're squatting in "his" territory, and places your fledgling colony into an opponent's Influence well. If you Mine any asteroids near those planets, they almost immediately flip to the opposing race that was already established before you moved into the neighborhood. And even with the SA, those normally uninhabitable planets are only 50% productive as a "normal" planet, due to the hostile environment. (Until you finish researching Colonization of that Extreme environment.)

My view of how such a SA should be incorporated is that the galaxy is generated, with planet quality and type randomly dropped onto the map. Then the various racial starting planets are dropped onto that gameboard with a bias towards NOT crowding the players next to each other. The "density" of any given planet type would be about the same, no matter where your start position happens to be.

As it stands, based on a sample of only three games, the _player's_ start position is crowded by the other races. Furthermore, _if_ the player has a Super Ability that involves the ability to colonize normally uninhabitable planets, then those types of planets are either converted to something else or pushed a good distance away from the player's starting world. The net effect is to marginalize the Super Ability and to place him at a disadvantage in regards to the races that start on the other side of the galaxy where things are less crowded.

Both of these game mechanics strike me as being something that would be directly connected to the Difficulty level. (Which, in my case, is "Normal".) If anyone has differing experiences on other Difficulty settings, I wouldn't mind hearing about it. My feeling is that the AI galaxy setup does this the same way across the full spectrum of Difficulty.
Reply #5 Top
Cap'n Patch, if you dont like your start position, "ctrl-n" will toggle you through new ones.
Reply #6 Top
In fact do several cntrl-n's anyway. The "setups" will be infinite, of sorts of shapes sizes and concentrations. The fact is the AI in GalCiv does not "cheat". I've lost count of the number of times this one has come up over the years since GalCiv came out. Its usually a case of assumption based on many other game titles that heavily use Scripting as an AI control mechanism - with those, many can and do"cheat", and its annoying. Does not happen with GalCiv.

There are occasions when I've been similarly tempted to come to that conclusion in frustration, only later to discover there was a perfectly logical reason behind the circumstances seen. It usually made me a better player during the learning curve in the early days of playing.

eg if a survey ship hit a worm hole (a pet hate of mine, when that happens with my own survey ships operating on "automatic") , it will get sent spinning across the Galaxy arriving on your doorstep, (say) 15 turns away, and bingo it appears "early" at turn 20.

On the contrary, the GalCiv AI has a reputation for being one of the best, if not the best in the games world, because it does not cheat, yet still does a remarkable job.

Regards
Zy
Reply #7 Top
First, I think this is one of the better turn based games out there. But I believe that stating it doesn't cheat at all is incorrect. According to a prior post the AI has knowledge of the map (resources, planets, etc). Then an alogithm is used to determine when the AI will try and take the planet or resource. To me, this is a cheat. I'm not stating it is wrong to use that method for the AI, just that using that method is a form of the AI cheating.
Reply #8 Top
One way I think the AI's might be "cheating" is in detecting ships that they should not be able to.

I often build long range "sniper" craft, a cargo hull with a single low-space weapon, one survey module, and the rest engines. I use these both as scouts and to pick off transports and spore ships before they can harm my planets. I sometimes find the AI ships hunting these down, even though there doesn't seem to be any way they could see them. And, even when they do chase the snipers, I should have enough maneuverability to run away from them. Somehow, they always seem to know which direction I've run off to, even though I veer off into an L pattern to confuse them.

I've experimented with this a bit. Reloading the game, going in a different direction, or scouting to see if there are any enemy scout ships nearby that could be detecting me and relaying my location. Nothing.

I suppose the enemy fleets could just have a better sensor radius than I give them credit for, but then how is it that are they cramming so much into so little space? Their miniaturization level is comparable with my own.

Similarly, the AI's seem to have an uncanny ability to detect resources.

I don't think this necessarily implies cheating, mind you; it could be something buggy. And, in any case, it's been like this since DL, at least.
Reply #9 Top
One way I think the AI's might be "cheating" is in detecting ships that they should not be able to.I often build long range "sniper" craft, a cargo hull with a single low-space weapon, one survey module, and the rest engines. I use these both as scouts and to pick off transports and spore ships before they can harm my planets. I sometimes find the AI ships hunting these down, even though there doesn't seem to be any way they could see them. And, even when they do chase the snipers, I should have enough maneuverability to run away from them. Somehow, they always seem to know which direction I've run off to, even though I veer off into an L pattern to confuse them.I've experimented with this a bit. Reloading the game, going in a different direction, or scouting to see if there are any enemy scout ships nearby that could be detecting me and relaying my location. Nothing.I suppose the enemy fleets could just have a better sensor radius than I give them credit for, but then how is it that are they cramming so much into so little space? Their miniaturization level is comparable with my own.Similarly, the AI's seem to have an uncanny ability to detect resources.I don't think this necessarily implies cheating, mind you; it could be something buggy. And, in any case, it's been like this since DL, at least.
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Not sure what level you are playing at, but the AI does get sensor bonuses on the highest levels.

Reply #10 Top
Not sure what level you are playing at, but the AI does get sensor bonuses on the highest levels.
End of quote


I play at Crippling, usually (or, have been, since I started testing this).
Reply #11 Top
So could someone explain the original poster's issue: high military with low planet development.

I've seen the same with spies. I have planets that are MUCH better with 100% empire production and yet I have lower output in respective areas. I play on tough - meaning there should be an equal playing field.

And I know for a fact that the AI knows where galactic resources are without seeing them on any AI level. Which is annoying in itself.
Reply #12 Top
Hi!
I go to place my spies on some Korath planets, and I see that planets with 2 slave canyons and one anti-matter plant are producing over 150 military production and about same social. WTF???
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With spies you don't see the _actuall_ planet's production, but max possible. So Korath COULD produce 150 MP, if they'd set slider 100/0/0. IIRC you need the second level of espionage to see planet's real output.

BR, Iztok