Playing as a peacemonger

Strategies?

from GalCiv2 Forums

One of the things I've always really enjoyed about GalCiv 2, as compared with, say, the Civ series, is that in Gal Civ 2, at least on the "Tough" difficulty level, it is genuinely feasible to play as a peacemonger.  I focus on economic, diplomatic, trade, population, and morale techs.  I either trade for military techs or research them when they become bargain-priced.  I build econ and influence starbases galore, and equip them with battlestations as a static defense, and then leave my planets essentially military-free.  If ever necessary, I can generally build a decent defense force when war looks inevitable, or even after it has already been declared.

I have only a limited amount of GalCiv experience, so I'd be interested in hearing any particular strategies that people have in pursuing a more peaceful game.  Most predominantly, though, one thing that always bothers me is that, as far as I can tell, influence will never cause a minor race, or a starbase, to flip.  Both those things seem a little counterintuitive to me.  With minor races in particular, when I've got a one-planet minor, entirely surrounded by my culture, and easily overwhelmed by me militarilly if I ever chose to build a military, it's kind of disappointing that there is no apparent peaceful manner to bring that planet into my federation, so to speak.  It's even more annoying if that one-planet minor has also cultivated a resource or two with starbases.  All of that could so easily be mine if I took an iron fist to the galaxy rather than a silk glove.  Are there any options in such circumstances rather than attacking the indiginous race?

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Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Re the minors, what you describe seemed counterintuitive to me at first also. But if you consider the minors as an alternative set of trading partners, it makes a bit of sense for them to be immune to culture flips. In many games, I've gotten much more out of trade routes & tech swapping than I would have by adding one decent-class planet to my empire. Re their mining bases, if I want one badly enough, I might ignore a major civ conquering them so my constructor-in-waiting can seize it.

Re peacemongering in GC2, I've found that working hard on both tech superiority and a strong economy can be a pretty good alternative to focusing on warships. I build fleets earlier than I used to, mostly for the military rating that helps put off attackers. Armed starbases are OK from a military rating POV, but putting some production into warships means you can start responding promptly if some fool decides to attack you.

If you want more detailed strategies from folks, it might help to know what your preferred non-military victory type is. I started out devoted to tech wins, but they eventually became too easy for me, so I don't do them so often. Influence wins are fun, but they can take quite a while on the larger maps. Diplo wins are my favorite these days, except that I'm also pretty sour right now on tech trading (I irrationally believe there's a computer player consortium that gets better deals than I ever can).
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I actually don't really win very often...I usually play and play for a long while and then start over. I'm generally doing quite well, or at least decently, when I start over, so it's not like some desperation thing. I kinda enjoy the playing more than the winning though. Probably as I refine some TotA strategies and come up with some that I really like, I'll start playing some games through to completion.
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Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I ignored the Metaverse (barely knew there was a scoring system) for a long time. That win talk is a clear sign that Mumblefratz, DethAdder and those other rascals at the MVC had a bad influence on me.

Keep up the peacemongering. I still haven't been able to bother with a military win even though I check my AltMeta standing at least once a week.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Peace mongering and in praise of the AI

I usually play small maps and go for cultural victories. I enjoy the wars but I don't have the time and patience for larger maps and the agonizing process of conquering everyone.

I recently tried a game on immense galaxy with a custom race that I had designed to hopefully be a peacenik race. No super ability and middle of the line abilities in econ, ,tech, moral and influence. I assigned them the Universalist politica and scaled back agressivemess to about 25%.

I figured it would be a piece of cake on tough and started out slow and methodical as the terrans, using the all factory strategy. By the end of 3 years the custom race was kicking my but in every category but military and while they had not built a single offensive ship, they had resarched all the way up to large hulls and had all the tech needed to win a war without building a single offensive warship.

I'll admit it was a boring game but it was very interesting that the AI was excelling with the tools and personality assigned to it instead of floundering around. The improvement choices made by the AI were almost perfect and it convinced me that gimmick strategy like all factory is not the best way to play a long game on a big map.

No doubt the game would have been won easily by adopting an early military strategy against this AI but allowing them to use the abilities they had and playing a peaceful startegy against them was a disaster.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Most predominantly, though, one thing that always bothers me is that, as far as I can tell, influence will never cause a minor race, or a starbase, to flip.
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In GCI most of the minors would flip (one or two would not) but starbases have never flipped. Since mines will flip I agree that it would seem that starbases would also be subject to flipping.

It is also odd that the minors like to build influnce starbases but apparently cannot flip your planets. What's the point?

Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I focus on economic, diplomatic, trade, population, and morale techs.
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This is pretty much what I attempt to do also. I always try to go for a political (alliance) or cultural victory in my games.
Generally speaking, research all the "yellow" techs and go for the "Galactic Showcase" and the "Restaurant of Eternity" as soon as possible, as well as establishing a "Political Capital" and the "Spin Control Center", and develop certain "trade goods", but some of these may not be on everyone's priority list.

These are all fine, but establishing at least some military presence is also crucial to keeping the bullies at bay temporarily and developing political clout to some degree.

I've had fairly decent success using Terrans (Super Diplomat), Drath (Super Manipulator) and Altarians (Super Organizer) as a means to a bloodless victory in DL, but a lot has to do with mixing and matching racial bonuses to political parties in the set-up screen.

I also try to stay neutral (tempted to try good) if at all possible and strategically place "Influence Star Bases" where I think they will achieve the greatest effect, without taking too much of a dive in relations that is.

(I irrationally believe there's a computer player consortium that gets better deals than I ever can).
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I would tend to agree with GW on this point, irrational as it may seem, but that's why in my current games I set tech trading to off.
I think it creates more of a challenge for the player by having it this way.
It could just be my imagination, but I think that I've probably lost more games with it off.

Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It could just be my imagination, but I think that I've probably lost more games with it off.
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Whoops... can't edit!

I meant to say that I've lost more games it seems with tech trading on.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I play Immense sized galaxies. Again, I'm really in it more for the playing than the winning, and being a part of this vast stretch of space is much more appealing to me.

I custom-made my race. Terran tech, Super-Diplomats. I took the first level of green planets, some bonus morale, bonus econ, creativity, and the tech-o-philes party, because they seemed to get the most bang for the buck in terms of overall bonuses. Between the party and the creativity, I'm a research powerhouse.

Before TotA, I always played with tech trading turned off. With TotA, I turned it on, to benefit from other civs' techs. I may turn it off again once cited flaws are eliminated, like one civ apparently being completely unable to build starbase defenses without trading tech first. That seems like such an immense detriment that I need to have it compensated through tech trading.

With a tech-heavy race, I've always felt that wonders/trade goods are very easily attainable, and I have made sure to dominate in those, focusing particularly on anything that gives a bonus to influence, diplomacy, or morale.
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Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I've always felt that wonders/trade goods are very easily attainable
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I don't know if it's part of my peacemonger tendencies or just a superiority thing, but I also put a high value on owning as many trade goods as I can and building pretty much all the Galactic Achievements with empire-wide effects (the single-planet ones just don't seem worth the tile to me in a game where I expect to end up with 100-200 worlds in my core territory).

For peacemongering, I suspect it is worthwhile to resist sharing many trade goods. I almost never let go of things like Gravity Accelerators, Diplomatic Translators, or Aphrodisiac. I pretty much limit sharing that stuff to the morale boosters like Virtual Reality Modules.

I also try to be careful to build those things as deep in home territory as possible, just in case...
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I do almost all my trading with the NPR's. They will always do well with your help and the other Racial AI's love to go after them.
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'm normally not into "peaceful" game play, however I just finished my first game of Twilight and in 5 years won a tech victory without ever being at war once. I was the Drath against 6 other civs, and used their manipulation and diplomacy benefits to the maximum advantage. I found that by keeping the other races at war with each other all the time, and by keeping the universe in balance (eg buying defense ships off one superior race and then immediately gifting them to their enemies) along with having a huge diplomacy bonus, I was able to keep out of trouble, all the while raking in the cash with war profiteering! It was a lot of fun. Keeping to my militiaristic tendancies though my next game will be Arceans vs 3 evil civs with only ascension victory enabled. Should lead to a different type of game.
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Also on another point, be picky who you decide to share economic and research treaties with.

If relations show signs of going sour (cool) with a particular race, try improving things by establishing a treaty or two with them (+,++, Our Treaties Together), but sometimes it's better to establish treaties with races that share your alignment or leaning if you want to speed up relations to "friendly"---> "close"---> "alliance".

*in my reply #6, I meant to say DA obviously, not DL* ;p
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
In addition to treaties, 2 trade routes with a race can also work nicely to improve relations.
Once some civilizations have researched more advance weapons techs for example in the mass driver / missile branches, I often sell my laser techs when I'm already at plasma weapons. The practical use of such weak weapons for them is almost zero but in tiny / small galaxies with rare everything the cash from selling a few of those techs helps.

Now that Particlewave mentions alliances, the thing I find most annoying about having tech trading off is that some races won't research the alliance tech, preventing me from getting an alliance with them in spite of close relations.
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Now that Particlewave mentions alliances, the thing I find most annoying about having tech trading off is that some races won't research the alliance tech, preventing me from getting an alliance with them in spite of close relations.
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I usually just gift the alliance tech to the AI, and then ask for an alliance.

Err, actually, I usually slaughter all of the AI's mercilessly, on principle, but if I were to seek an alliance, I would gift it to them. Um yeah.
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
keeping the universe in balance (eg buying defense ships off one superior race and then immediately gifting them to their enemies)
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It took me too long to understand this set of tactics, and I still don't use it enough b/c the UI is pretty tedious for most of the game on larger, fairly planet-rich maps.

I really wish I could give whole fleets at a time instead of having to carefully pick through my list of tens or hundreds of individual warships.

the thing I find most annoying about having tech trading off is that some races won't research the alliance tech, preventing me from getting an alliance with them in spite of close relations.
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110% agreed. It still seems a little odd to me that flat-out gifting techs falls under the "Tech Trading" umbrella. If I can't clearly see what I got (and keep it), it doesn't seem like a trade to me. All you get from giving a tech is a relations bump that might not last very long, and possibly some value from manipulating the civ, e.g. distracting them with a timely (for me) buildout of new improvements.
Reply #16 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
the thing I find most annoying about having tech trading off is that some races won't research the alliance tech, preventing me from getting an alliance with them in spite of close relations.
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Yeah, this sucks for sure.
In my last game the Thalans were fairly quick to form an alliance with me and with the Drath a little bit later on, but the Torians would not budge no matter what.
We four were the last ones standing; the Drath allied with the Thalans and the Thalans with me and the Torians with no one.
I flipped the Drath eventually which left just the three of us so it turned into a long drawn out affair with a cultural (influence) victory for me eventually.
Reply #17 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Another thing that's been bugging me lately.

I read a post a long time ago that stated that if you want to stir things up between races that are getting a little too cozy with one another and one of them is showing negative relations towards you because of your close proximity Influence SB's, then just gift that offending starbase to their cozy neighbour and see if their warm and fuzzy relations take a hit.

Now, I've tried this a few times and every time I gift that starbase it just disappears from the map.
They say thanks for your generosity or something glib like that and that seems to be the end of it.
I can't see any difference in their relations towards each other at all.
Maybe they have warmed up to me a little after that, but it's no different than if I were to just remove that starbase myself; in the meantime I've just lost a very expensive and time consuming build.

Maybe the AI only recognizes military sb's when gifting or when playing on difficulty levels above tough.
If you can gift ships, why not starbases?

Any personal experiences or thoughts on this?
Reply #18 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
every time I gift that starbase it just disappears from the map
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Is that immediately, or after you process the turn? I can imagine the receiving civ deciding that the BC from scrapping the base is better than the relations hit they'd get from keeping it.
Reply #19 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Now that Particlewave mentions alliances, the thing I find most annoying about having tech trading off is that some races won't research the alliance tech, preventing me from getting an alliance with them in spite of close relations.
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Seconded. I keep tech trading on ONLY for that reason. Very annoying.
Reply #20 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Is that immediately, or after you process the turn?
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Well, one time for certain after I had gifted the starbase I clicked "done" and returned to the map to look for the new SB colour change... and it was gone.
Other times that I've tried this, I may have assumed without checking first and inadvertently hit the turn button and then noticed it's disappearance one or two turns later.

I can imagine the receiving civ deciding that the BC from scrapping the base is better than the relations hit they'd get from keeping it.
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Could very well be the case GW.

In one game as I recall, relations were already strained between two civs.(situation reversed).
I just figured that the civ. that I had gifted the SB to maybe wanted to avoid digging a deeper hole for itself or like you say, avoid a further relations hit... so *poof* destroyed my gift to make nice (what?... an influence SB with our name on it, next to you?... how'd that get there [-], hehe... here, let me fix that![+]).
Again, not sure if the result was immediate.

I'm not sure, but for me to destroy a fully decked-out SB I think I only receive something like 40 bcs for all that went into making it, so I'm hoping that the AI gets the same, not more.
It seems like pocket change to me, but the AI is a real bean counter, so 40 bcs is 40 bcs I guess.

Curious though that civs. will build their own starbases (mil. & infl.) all over the place, but won't keep a freebie.

On a side note, has anyone successfully purchased a foreign starbase?
Reply #21 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Did once, but the AI insanely overvalues them 99% of the time. The Torians were going for an ascension victory on a immense map, and I didn't think I could find the offending starbase in time. I purchased it just so I'd know where it was before I declared war on them.