Creativity too strong on 'very slow tech speed'

In my games 25% creativity seems to proc every 30-40 turns, as best as I can tell. I agree that it is strong on very slow tech speed, but I think it's actually a bit weak on very fast tech speed. I actually rather like it the way it worked before, but I understand that it's a lot more exciting the way it is now.

Just think if you decided to nearly hault your research and leave just enough to still have a timer on the tech...ETA of 3,000 or such, and THEN have creativity proc for you...sick. That is how I normally run the Thalan to get their various factory/research buildings.

I know this thread is probably talking about creativity in TA. But i wanted to ask what experiences anyone has had with it in DA? I don't usually pick it since i had heard that it doesnt seem to ever trigger.

You have to look in the debug.err for it triggering in DA/DL. Also, in DA/DL it only gave a certain number of research points, not finishing the current tech. So it was silent and not super-powered.

The way it is now, it just gained a spot next to Luck in "points I always spend".

Yes, Creativity is powerful in TA. It's a "must have" pic now for sure, especially for only 1pt! Use this to try and get Planetary Invasion early and you gain a serious advantage over the AI.

It seems to work very well at normal research speed, so if it could be improved, yes, an adjustment based on overall tech speed would be good.

I can't recall where the post is, but someone tested creativity in DA and it averaged out to 12.5% additional research points and scales with the number of research points your empire produces. Again, this is based on my memory of someone elses tests, but my experience with it matches pretty closely. The problem is you've got to look in the debug.err to actually "see" the results, and 12.5%, while very helpful, is not enough to be easily "felt", so to speak. I think because of this creativity in DA has been under-rated for a long time.

It seems to me that any pic that is labeled "must have" is, almost by definition, over powered. Sounds like they need to tone it down a bit in a patch.

Luck is always a must-have with the Thalans, although one still generally wants to put points into research. I mean, in the early game, unless you spend on research, what else are you going to do? After a point colonization just means economic death.

As an aside, what does Luck affect, exactly? I have only put the point into it occasionally, and have never noticed any particular difference.

Luck just gives a +25% to minimum damage, more of a requirement for Super Warriors like the Arceans.

Solution: Tie the odds of creativity to research speed, maybe somewhat to research rate.

He meant Creativity.

I don't know why they didn't just make Creativity based on the % you have going into Research at the very least. With 100% funding and 100% research, you get your full Creativity bonus, since you're employing more scientists. *Shrug*

I'd have made it trigger on discovering a new tech. Every time you'd discover a tech, you have a chance, based on your Creativity, to spontaneously discover a second tech. Helps avoid the "oh, grand, I just saved 3 whole research points by discovering my current tech the turn before I was supposed to" disappointment as well as the overpowered nature of Creativity in slow research games or games where you don't spend much on research.

I think just reducing the frequency of creativity or perhaps making it have a "thanks to your race's creativity a new breakthrough was made that has improved your knowledge on the current field of research by 50%". I agree that in the slow research games, frequent creativity can let you make somewhat overpowering advances in no time. Personally, I love how the "very slow" research in Twilight is MUCH slower than it was in DA. Previously, I'd only improve weapons/engines/defense when I'd reached th final iteration of a given type Lasers V for instance, but with the progression so slow now, I'm thrilled when I get Lasers II so that I can upgrade the combat fleets for my war with the Iconians. With research so slow, when one race gets an edge over you in another field, its a genuine concern instead of the "oh, i can just trade for something better than they have or quickly research it myself". This is even more the case given the AIs aversion to trading their better techs. Now, you have to make some huge sacrifices in terms of what/how much you'll have to give away in exchange if you really want technology X. I love it!

I disagree - I play very slow tech and immense galaxies and find that I only have a "berakthrough" every once in a while... definitely not multiple techs in a row or too frequently.

I like it as is.

I think what they were shooting for under the label of "Creativity" was a research breakthrough. You know, those "Eureka!" moments when a scientist is overwhelmed by some insight. However, in ToA, it seems that Creativity always results in "research complete". Any scientist can tell you that on any given project, there will be a series of "Eureka!" moments. Very rarely does it result in "mission accomplished". More like a hefty jump forward, bringing the conclusion faster than normal plodding along would have done.

Given the above, I believe Creativity should NOT be 25%. More like 10% at most. And when it triggers, it dumps in a significant number of research points; the specific amount should be tied to what amount of GDP is currently aimed at Research. (The more scientists on the project, the greater the likelihood that a Creativity event will occur.)

Additionally, given how Creativity/Eureka! actually works in Reality, what should be added to the game are some hidden tech paths that will not become available unless a Creativity event occurs on certain, specific tech research. Like, get Creative on Ion Drives, and -- surprise! -- you can jump ahead to Warp Drive research.

The eternal "too powerful" mantra.

If you think it is too powerful, don't pick it. I don't know if the AI ever uses it but if they do, it make the game more challenging, which is what the too powerful faction wants, isn't it?

It's fine the way it is imo.

When I want a challenging game, I play on suicidal with all abilities zeroed out and everything toggled off that can be toggled off. Then I play blindfolded with the sound muted.

Fair call that. I just played an immense map with ultra slow tech and creativity and it wasn't too long before I was selecting 100 turn techs and just waiting for that sweet and sudden discovery. In the end it was tech that comfortably won me the game.

Cheap I know, which is why I most likely will not choose it again under those conditions. Normal/large on the other hand, should be fine.