The I.R.S should do more tax audits, that would help with money.

That is because Americans are the only ones with the freedom to waste their time coasting up and down the internet replying to such posts as these. In China, if we were discussing this same topic, Stardock would have been raided, our names and addresses found, and all of our bodies thrown in jail (or worse) for either treason or conspiracy to commit treason.

Any refunds are just going to go towards gas or food, and ultimately end up benifiting foreign contries, not our economy.

The US is the worlds largest exporter of food, not just an importer.

The gas is about 50/50, you can blame congress for that. Forcing the oil companies to lose money on any new refineries they built just so they could build them in Mexico with even lower standards was real bright. Same deal with California making it impossible to operate a new power plant in California, so they buy their power from Mexico, again with even lower standards. The joys of environmentalism.

Still, you have to understand something about an import. Even if we all buy 100% imports, only a small fraction is actually leading to the foreigner that imported it. If the merchant ship that transported it here was American owned, there's a cut, the land based transport from the docks to wherever is American, the costs incurred during the trip all go to American infrastructure, the warehousers would be American owned, the store it's eventually sold in is American owned. At the least, you've got two different stages where a profit is made off that good in this country, and both profits are taxed. It would be quite reasonable for there to be four or five different companies taking a cut out of it. Then there are the operating costs, which are further income for other Americans. Most of the time, Americans make more money off imports than the actual importers do.

to act23456, I hope your comment on "Americans are the only ones with the freedom to waste their time coasting up and down the internet replying to such posts"
was meant for laughs. For those who do agree with that statement, it will do you well to remember that America is not the only "free" english speaking country, secondly most participants who post here are from english speaking countries so hence the lack of people from "unfree" countries like france . Thirdly, if you have taken the time to visit a chinese forum, you will find people doing pretty much the same thing, making posts about how China is great and all that, anyone who says otherwise is flamed. Just like how it is anywhere else. Their government understands that most people on the internet are just all talk and won't raise a finger in the real world (comment not directed at anyone, just an observation that there is a large discrepancy between the number of e-Insurgencies and real ones).

Turks are not Arabs.



Well, before the WWI they did control roughly 80% of the world, that makes them a Superpower in my eyes. Superpower is just another word for Empire.



Spain had lost it's power long before the Napoleonic wars, Germany was a strong country but had no influence outside Europe. And France, while still having colonies, they where actually only loosing money on them. Ottoman Empire? It was called the sick dog of Europe before WWI.

well theleif your wrong, superpower is not another way of saying a empire. Thats like saying 1+1=1. It's just wrong.

None of those Nation will exist after ARMAGEDDON which most people think it will happen in our life time all the nation you speak of will be no more.

THE BIBLE foretold the present moral breakdown long in advance and described it this way: “In the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, . . . disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, . . . fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power.”—2 Timothy 3:1-5.

You may agree that this Bible prophecy is an accurate description of the world today. Yet, it was recorded nearly 2,000 years ago! The prophecy is introduced with the words: “In the last days.” What does that expression, “the last days,” mean?
“The Last Days” of What?

“The last days” has become a very common expression. In the English language alone, it has been part of the title of hundreds of books. Consider, for example, the recent book The Last Days of Innocence—America at War, 1917-1918. The prologue makes clear that when using the term “the last days,” the book refers to a specific time, one in which there has been a tremendous decay in morals.

“In 1914,” the prologue explains, “the country was changing more rapidly than at any time in its history.” Indeed, the year 1914 marked a plunge into war worldwide, which had not been experienced before. The book says: “This was total war, the conflict not of army against army but nation against nation.” This war, as we will see, occurred at the beginning of what the Bible terms “the last days.”

That this world would experience before its actual end a specific time called “the last days” is a teaching of the Bible. The Bible, in fact, says that a world once existed that has already passed away, or ended, explaining: “The world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water.” What time was that, and what was the world that ended? It was the ancient “world of ungodly people” that existed in the days of the man Noah. Similarly, today’s world will end. Yet, those who serve God will survive the end, as did Noah and his family.—2 Peter 2:5; 3:6; Genesis 7:21-24; 1 John 2:17.
Wicked people drowning

What Jesus Said About the End

Jesus Christ also spoke of “the days of Noah,” when “the flood came and swept them all away.” He compared conditions that existed before the Flood—just prior to the end of that world—with those that would prevail during the time that he identified as “the conclusion of the system of things.” (Matthew 24:3, 37-39) Other Bible translations use the expression “the end of the world” or “the end of the age.”—The Jerusalem Bible, The New English Bible, and the New International Version.

Jesus foretold what life would be like on earth just before the world’s end. Regarding war, he said: “Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom.” Historians have noted that this occurred beginning in 1914. Thus, the prologue of the aforementioned book spoke of 1914 as marking the beginning of “total war, . . . not of army against army but nation against nation.”

In his prophecy, Jesus added: “There will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.” He went on to say that among other things there would be an “increasing of lawlessness.” (Matthew 24:7-14) Surely we have seen this occur in our day. Today’s moral breakdown is so severe that it is fulfilling Bible prophecy!

When a world ended, there were God-fearing survivors

What should our lives be like during such a decadent time? Note what the apostle Paul wrote to Christians in Rome regarding moral decay. He pointed to the “disgraceful sexual appetites” of people, observing: “Both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene.”—Romans 1:26, 27.

Historians say that while human society then sank ever deeper into moral decay, “the little Christian communities were troubling the pleasure-mad pagan world with their piety and their decency.” This should cause us to pause and ask: ‘What about me and those I choose for associates? Do we stand out as different, as morally upright, unlike those who carry on immorally?’—1 Peter 4:3, 4.
The Battle We Have

The Bible teaches us that despite the immorality surrounding us, we need to be “blameless and innocent, children of God without a blemish in among a crooked and twisted generation.” To do this, we need to keep “a tight grip on the word of life.” (Philippians 2:15, 16) This Bible statement provides the key to how Christians can remain untainted by moral corruption—they need to hold fast to the teachings of God’s Word and recognize that its moral standards represent the best way of living.

“The god of this system of things,” Satan the Devil, is trying to win over people’s hearts. (2 Corinthians 4:4) The Bible tells us that he “keeps transforming himself into an angel of light.” His ministers, those who serve him by acting like him, do too. (2 Corinthians 11:14, 15) They promise freedom and fun, but as the Bible says, “they themselves are existing as slaves of corruption.”—2 Peter 2:19.

Have no illusions about it. Those who ignore God’s moral standards will suffer dire consequences. The Bible psalmist wrote: “Salvation is far away from the wicked ones, for they have not searched for [God’s] own regulations.” (Psalm 119:155; Proverbs 5:22, 23) Are we convinced of that? If we are, let us protect our minds and hearts against permissive propaganda.

Many, however, unwisely reason, ‘If what I’m doing is not illegal, then it’s all right.’ But that is not so. Our heavenly Father lovingly provides moral guidance, not to make your life boring and restrictive, but to protect you. He is “teaching you to benefit yourself.” He wants you to avoid calamity and enjoy a happy life. Indeed, as the Bible teaches, serving God “holds promise of the life now and that which is to come.” That is “the real life,” eternal life in his promised new world!—Isaiah 48:17, 18; 1 Timothy 4:8; 6:19.
A couple listening to a woman play a guitar

So compare the benefits of following Bible teachings with the heartache that eventually comes to those who fail to do so. Winning God’s favor by listening to him is truly the best way of life! “As for the one listening to me,” God promises, “he will reside in security and be undisturbed from dread of calamity.”—Proverbs 1:33.
A Morally Upright Society

The Bible says that when this world passes away, “the wicked one will be no more.” It also says: “The upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it.” (Psalm 37:10, 11; Proverbs 2:20-22) So the earth will be cleansed of all remnants of immorality, including all those who refuse to abide by the wholesome teachings of our Creator. An earthly paradise, similar to that in which God placed the first human pair, will then gradually be cultivated earth wide by lovers of God.—Genesis 2:7-9.

Consider the pleasure of living in such a cleansed earth of paradisaic beauty! Among those who will be privileged to see it will be the billions resurrected from the dead. Rejoice in God’s promises: “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.” “[God] will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”—Psalm 37:29; Revelation 21:3, 4.

Ok, I knew this would get political.

Democrats have had control of congress and the presidency far more than republicans since the Democratic "new deal" which is now bankrupting us in the form of "social security" which should just be shortened to socialism.

The fact is, in terms of times of success vs. poor economic times, the Republicans have it.

Sure the economy is slowing right now (as it always does in cycles,) and sure we took a 12 month hit after 9/11, but most of the last 7 years have been economically excellent.

Do you honestly think windfall profits taxes, and raking americans who are "rich" (i.e. make $150k/year, even in NJ) is going to help the country. Most of those additional taxes will get eaten up in a corrupt beauracry. Yet small business accounts for most jobs and GDP growth. Owners like myself with say, just screw it, and coast back since making another $1, will mean paying .60 or more in taxes with all the various layers.

That will result in an economy that is far worse than today.

EVERY TIME taxes are lowered, tax revenue increases, it's an unarguable fact. EVERY TIME taxes are raised, tax revenue decreases. It sounds wierd, but its true based on incentive or lack thereof to work hard.

Why do you think the Soviet's failed? No matter what your place (a Doctor or a factory worker) you all had about the same level of lifestyle...Miserable, so what was the incentive to work hard and be a doctor?

Europe is starting to lean conservative (look at France of all countries) and we are about to flip socialist, so now we can expect our next 10 to 20 years to look like Europes last 10 or so, ....Not pretty

The armageddon came and passed long ago. You ever heard of the fall of the Roman Empire and the dark ages?

can we keep religon out plese? I dont whant peoples religous ideas to be scorned and cause a all out war on this forum, and also stardock would shut it down. Nothing happend yet but since BowandHammer brought religon up, some one is going to dissagre and people are going to get angry! since this is my post I can ask a moderator to erase post that are offensive. Hate to sound threating but I dont whant people to start hating each other because of this.

The Ottaman empire wasn't just composed of turks, the arabs were also a part of it, hell most of ancient Persia was apart of it. And streakingsnake I don't know if they think those people wont lift a finger to do anything, if they thought that then why would they restrict their access to many, many foriegn sites.

besides if america does fall it will be one hell of a collapse, as of yet we have the most suffisticated meidcal technology on the market, which by the way is on of are major exports. Trust me if America goes down, just like any other superpower or semi-superpower (yes thats not really the term but heck)the world will feel it bad. People seem to always look at america as some horrible destroyer, and we really aren't, people from other countries come here, either because they have nowhere else to go or they just want to be free (well more free then they probably are). America will probably never fall as a country in the sense that are ideals will be lost. Hell we may even stay a superpower for a long time...a very long time. It really is hard to say and this is one hell off a topic to be asking since really you can never tell with these things.

Lets put it this way, we may not always be number one, but we will probably always be a super power. And in regards to China, well they certainly could be the new #1 superpower in the coming years but that won't change anything really. China as a nation likes to keep to themselves, hopefully they don't get a trigger happy leader to fire off some nukes or else we all die.

And also satelites aren't the only things we use to guide nukes, so no if they "zap" are satelites we aren't screwed as bad as people are saying on here, and China wouldn't do it so they can threaten us all they want, but for the good of the world lets hope they dont. All we need is another cold war, right.

Anyways bottom line America isn't perfect so shit can happen and we may not be #1 forever. People shouldn't worry about us so much anyways, we are run by the people and are people come from all over the world so you would have a hard time trying to piss us all off.   And while I don't think the Chinese government is trust worthy to a point really, I highly doubt they would do anything crazy so I don't see it as an issue really. And besides what will be interesting to watch out for is the birth of new superpowers, or the awakening of the UK, you mustn't underestimate the Ex-rulers of the world, but then again they would be quite a diffrent superpower then they were back then since they aren't being driven by imperalism any more.

Ah I wonder if it is possible for us to all get along on some level...

I'd be happy if Europe would just share the weight... I don't need the UK to try and play world police, but being able to fully man their aging navy would be a nice start. It's damned inconvenient being the only stable democracy capable of defending itself.

The restrictions are in place to make it difficult to get controversial news. It is easily bypassed by simple proxy servers (I used to do it all the time )but the idea is to make enough of a nuisance to discourage most people to not try look for it. The information eventually gets through but by then everything is over and done with and its not news anymore. People are mostly just too lazy to try look beyond the firewall. I'm not saying that China is free or anything but merely refuting the idea that people get locked up and beaten for posting anti china comments in forums or that forum discussions don't exist. There are certain stupid things like most forum have moderators who are or answer to the government which gives them instruction on what kind of posts to delete or threads shut down, like recently the counter-anti china protests in china against france led to passions running too high for the governments liking, which ordered the shutdown of boycott and rally-related organising threads on the internet. Even so, there were still protesters outside french businesses and the like, but the rest of the state security apparatus took care of that. People are allowed to flame all they like on the internet, but the government only feels it necessary to stop it spilling out into the real world.

Great thing about America is that she doesn't like to lose, so I doubt anyone will be taking the crown. Bad thing is that we have the ability to destroy the world to make sure we don't lose...

Well, I did mean it as a sort-of joke, but it was more geared towards China vs. the US. Even if you look at the EU, they still reserve the right to sensor websites from their people. In America, that doesn't happen.

And that is what it boild down to: Americans are so used to having these freedoms that if they ever get taken away, they are at least going to put up a fight.

Oh, finally, someone who at least agrees with me on some level! This is the basis of my theories: If you tax the wealthy, then there is not incentive to become wealthy. And yes, I completely agree, higher taxes lead to less tax revenue.

Myth perpetuated by Hollywood. Every nuke on earth, set off at the exact same time in as uniform a manner as possible, wouldn't even guarantee the extinction of many animals. We'd be pretty fucked up for a while, high rates of cancer, birth defects, stuff like that, but we'd be just fine in the long run. There'd be a lot less of us obviously, but the world ending cataclysm that wipes out life on earth is pure myth. The nuclear winter that may or may not come about is less of a threat than the last ice age was, note how the world still exists.

LMAO don't be so sure since if the U.S. Stock Market falls so will every other countries Stock Market just like back in 1929. Plus the countries that own the US Dollar will be fucked since they just lost out on millions of dollars they have invested in the US Economy.

Uh, no? Why would it? The basis of a higher-tax for the wealthy would be to maintain a linear curve of income tax, so that while the wealthy stay wealthy they pay more in proportion to their earnings. It's not as if the wealthy will get taxed back into a middle-class bracket, it's that they'll pay more because they earn more.

No he is right! as long as they insist on taxing me if I am rich I am going to make sure I stay poor! I am not going to waste my time getting rich just so that I have to pay taxes on it... I mean afterall as long as I don't get rich I don't have to pay taxes, so I am just going to sit here and waste my time doing nothing ... That will show them!

My god, I think I've beat the system! If I just live in a cardboard box by the freeway, I don't have to pay a thing! :]

oh god I'm happy that I've stopped trying to follow these debates

people just dont realize how common these topics are. people had the same concern 150 years ago, except theirs were far more warranted.

will America stay in front for the long term? nobody can tell. over centuries? obviously not. but for the short term America is still in the seat of power and has a certain keystone economic structure that neither the EU nor china can easily and quickly replicate.

so yes, sometime in the future, but not yet.

Upfront acknowledgements:

1. I am Chinese and live in China. I am naturally going to have a pro-China bias and I'll do my best to come across as objective as I can.

2. English is not my first (or second) language. My apologies if I have used incorrect vernacular or nuance in my text. I hope my underlying meaning is clear. When in doubt, I have used Babelfish and I know that at times, it comes out wrong.

3. I log on to Stardock because I like to play Twilight of the Arnor. I'm not a politics major. I don't lecture in American history or write books on global economics. I'm a gamer who much prefers to be blowing up Thalans than discussing international politics. I don't claim any knowledge beyond that which an ordinary member of the public might have.

There's been a lot of comment in this thread about China. Outside of this forum, there's been a lot of talk about China in recent times, from the Olympics and the torch, to Tibet, to issues of health, pollution, freedom etc.

I'd like to share some points of view from a Chinese living in China - about topics raised in this thread.

1. China is very poor and uneducated. Fair comment. We have 1.3 billion plus people, only 45% of whom speak Mandarin (our national tongue) as a first language. Our literacy rate is low compared to the United States and we all think Harvard is heaven.

However, that's not to say we are an entire country of beer swilling kindergarden pig farmers. If we consider the three major education centers of China, Beijing, Shanghai and Xi'an, that's about 50 million people. In these places, we are educated, multi-lingual, increasingly wealthy, literate etc. True, 50 million is a small proportion of 1.3 Billion - but it's still not a small number. Just like any country, we have our 'good' places and our 'not so good places'.

2. China has no freedom. This is a big comment and I'd like to focus on act23456's comment about internet freedom of political speech. Streakingsnake made a comment that our blogs and forums are all filled with political discourse which I'd agree with. I'd go one step further and argue that we are more politically active than might be believed. If I say that Hu JinTao (our President) made a wrong move, will the Chinese secret police come battering down my day in the middle of the night to cut off my testicles?

Respectfully, I submit that the amount of hyperbole given to the 'control' of the Communist Party is rather extreme. We criticise all the time. Who doesn't? Whether it's over corruption, or the delay in providing aid to snow storm stricken places, or the appointment of person X to position Y, we criticise. To Streakingsnake's point about whether we turn e-dissent into 'real' dissent, I'm sorry that I am not clear what that means. Do we storm the streets? No - fair comment. Do we write to our local members of parliament (yes, we do have those), do we sign petititions, do we call in to talkback radio? yes. Do we complain that our voices are not heard? Absolutely. And with respect, is that not what you do in your countries as well?

3. China heavily censors the internet. CNN is blocked, Youtube / Flikr / Google / any big well known internet name being hounded out of the country etc. Again, true to some extent. And even I, with so little computer knowledge that I sometimes need to call technical support to work out how to check my email, know that with a simple change of a few settings in Internet Explorer (I don't know what those settings are called in English - proximates I think it's called)suddenly all those terrible censorships disappear. It's not that hard. We can also listen to BBC, Voice of America etc. on the radio. I can read Le Monde or the International Herald Tribune or the New York Times at the library. Yes, it's a pain. And it's not like we are living in a totally isolated bubble.

4. China is ruled by the Communist Party with an iron fist. Often, the China I read about in the press has Chairman Mao clawing his way out of the ground and spreading tentacles into every living room in China. Our Communist Party is (a) NOT the only party in China and (b) heavily factionated - so much so that sometimes we consider needing to have special names for the different factions (Democrat and Republican was at one time suggested as a joke...) Small example, in China, two key issues right now are Health and Technology. We don't want to be seen as the home of SARS and Infant Foot and Mouth. We want to have better computers, trains, military equipment etc. (who doesn't?) The newly appointment Minister for Health and the Minister for Technology are both not Communist Party members. The new leadership of China is increasingly non-Party. Will it ever be totally non-Party? Probably not. But let's also not believe China has been some evil Communist regime since the dawn of time led by men in dark suits having clandestine meetings in smoky rooms. Communism is only about 60 years old here - and I humbly submit that it means something very different to us than it does to people overseas. We have good politicians and bad ones. Most start off good with high ideals and then get disenchanted by the slow progress. Things change too slowly. Yes yes and again yes. But change happens and we are quietly optimistic that tomorrow will be better than today.

China is by no means a perfect country. To use an American phrase, it 'sucks' in many ways. You think we are not worried about pollution, international reputation, corruption etc. as well? We think we are 100% in favour of the death penalty and chant kum-ba-ya praise be to the One Child Policy? Of course we recognise that there are LONG ways to go and MANY things we need to change.

And we are not the the backwater hole of depression, the uneducated cess-pool of sweatshops and the demonic anti-Christ against human rights that we are often portrayed as. We recognise our problems and are doing our best to solve them. We complain. We criticise. We blog.

But we also hope. We believe. We want to change things... step by step for the better. Do we WANT to become a superpower - I don't know. But I do know we have 1/5 of the world's population. 1/5 of the world's problems. And if we can go just a little bit towards solving them, it'd be a very good thing. So... we try.