Strategic Problem for a born again newbie

from GalCiv2 Forums

Long time lurker, first time posting. I haven’t played Gal Civ 2 in awhile, but I recently bought the Dark Avatar and forthcoming Twilight expansion packs. Once again I’m excited about the game, but my strategic skills are very rusty.

 In my recent game I’ve come to a very important point, and I need help!. Basically all the other civs have been wiped out. It’s down to just me and the Thalans. I’m playing a custom race. I believe our pre-set skills are maxed out research points, creativity, maxed out economy points,  some defense, and a couple of points in diplomacy. I also have the super diplomat ability. Playing on a Medium sized galaxy, fast technology rate.

To make a long story short, my close allies Clan Wolf (another custom race of my design based off the Battletech Clan Wolf) just had their asses handed to them by the Thalans. The wolves have just surrendered all of their planets to me. That leaves me utterly alone to take the Thalans on. Suddenly I have about 10 to 15 new and undefended planets scattered around the map. My own home systems are close together at the top edge of the map. My question is, should I bother trying to hold all these planets, because they are far away and near Thalan territory? My economy is already in the toilet from war production. This sudden addition of billions of unhappy new subjects has sent my profits into a nosedive, again. If I destroy the colonies, do I get some sort of profit out of it? (I’ve never destroyed a colony before). Or should I just leave these planets undefended so that the Thalans can waste resources trying to take them?  I am very concerned that my economy is going to take a huge and unrecoverable plummet. Also, several of the surrendered planets are heavy grav, barren etc., and I never bothered to research those techs because I was lucky enough not to need them. My strong research powers will allow me to get those techs fairly fast, but is that a waste of resources at this point?  Also, the Thalans refuse to agree to peace terms, that is, unless I give them a boatload of valuable techs, or money, which I no longer have.

Couple more background facts: Technologically, I am number one. The Thalans also have good tech ability, so I do not have a huge edge here. They have gone the missile route, and their ships usually are very heavy in both missiles and missile defenses. Their fleets usually have 200- 300 points in missile offense. Ouch! Therefore, I have deliberately advanced mass drivers and beam weapons, and I made sure to research missile defenses to the maximum, which I believe is called the Arceon defense system. The problem is, the best huge ship I can produce can muster about 150 missile defense points and about 45 points in mass drivers, with two warp drive III engines.  I could put more defenses on them but I need some offense right? Would an even more defense orientated ship be a good idea? This capital ship can slug it out with them, but they eventually destroy them with numbers, and these capital ships are very expensive for me to throw away, and they take a long time to build. If I could build a few of these, I think I could fight back decently, but now my economy is in shambles, my people are unhappy, and all my other ships are obsolete. The Thalan economy is a monster, and they have a lot more planets than me, though I do not think they are as well developed. I have crafted my empire to be a research powerhouse, and I really only have two planets that are industrial giants. My main question is, at this point should I try for a tech victory or try to slug it out with them?
strategies
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Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Have you tried giving them some of those economically crappy planets in return for peace?  ;p 

Then go for your tech victory.

Otherwise, don't destroy the colonies, just destroy the structures on them that are causing you to go negative. Hell, destroy all of thestructures except economic structures like banks and morale structures like zero G stadiums. Those planets will go positive once the population is high enough
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
my suggestion, try to get a Peace Treaty; being Super Diplomat, you may not even not even to concede anything to get it.

Like Piznit said, demolish any unneeded buildings on your new worlds, and just concentrate on econ for them. That being said, since you said they are in/near Thalan space if you have any that are very valuable, build those up so that yuo are able to use them offensively later.

If you go the Tech Victory route, the Thalans will DEFINITELY try to take you out as you get closer to the end, and nothing you do will appease them. So if you do that, make sure your research worlds are very well protected ie Orbital Defense Structures and maybe a Planetary Defense structure on particularly vulnerable important worlds.

All you need to do for Tech is hold out long enough.
Siege of Centauri
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
If you don't think you can get away with a military victory I'd what Piznit said and try giving up a couple of planets for peace. Especially the extreme environment ones. Maybe super diplomat will help you out. If you think you may go the military route, don't give them too much that you'll have to spend resouces on later to get back.

As for your question about your ships, situations are always unique but thinking about what you described: Their high offence, off type defence and your in ablity to accept losses I say you should go for greater defences. Since they are using off type defences you don't need too much weaponry but you do need to prtoect what you have. Obliterating them in one round wont help you if your ships get severely damaged. The ship you described looks good though. Too bad you have like a difference in 50 between your defences and their weapons. I would look at your fleet offence verses theit fleet HP to get some idea of what you need.

Just keep researching for better weapons and miniturization.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
yeah; as for your ships, esp since u already have Aereon Missile Defense, and thats what they are using against you (missiles)

The beam route is cheaper and faster than the Mass Drivers, so go with that up to Doom Ray.

Grab some Mini Techs (and build the Hyperion Shrinker)

On your Huge Hull, place two Doom Rays (attack of 44) and fill the rest with Aereons. Dont worry about engines and all that. These are gonna be your Big Defense Ships for around your important worlds.

Ship #2. Your Kamikaze Machine. Engines and Weapons only. Medium hulled. Make it at least faster than their ships. You want this ship to still be relatively cheap so you can build a quite a few of them. Understand that most are going to be destroyed. Your using them to make attack runs against their fleets, dwindling their numbers. With Hyperwarp engines and DoomRays, you can make a good dent.

Ship #3: Fleet Capital Ship: Again two doom rays, enough engines (usually two Hyperwarp III(speed 12), and the rest Aereon Defense. Couple some of your Kamikaze's with these to make fleets. Use these to mop up.

Generally speaking, as long as your defense is at least 75% of their attack values, you should be alright.

Also, in the future, when playing DA or TA, give yourself the Luck Ability to automatically give your ships improved weapons/defense capabilities (instead of rolling from 0-Max, it rolls from 25%-Max)
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Thanks for the tips everyone. I didn't even think of giving away the crappy planets, so thank you! I think if I can gift the Thalans my crappy/distant worlds given to me through the surrender, I can pull out of my economy dive. If I can get some time, peace, and money I know I can build fleets that will be able to beat them. I hope the Thalans are not smart enough to realize they have me on the ropes. If they keep pushing right now I will go down. They already have destroyed many of my best star bases, those bastards. :p
I do not think they have any techs in beam or mass driver defense, at least that I have seen. I do have the highest minaturization tech, so that should help. They use alot of large ships I have noticed. If I built kamikaze fleets of tiny fighters, would that be a good counter? On tiny fighters I can fit a few Arceons missile defenses, is it worth the extra cost or should I go all offense ? I admit I have struggled to understand exactly how the combat system works despite reading several posts about it.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Combat in DA:

The attacking fleet/ship gets the first move.

It will each weapon individually rolling an attack of 0-Max (unless the Luck ability is enabled, which changes the lowest point attacks are rolled from) at the strongest opponent vessel, and then continue down the line until every weapon has been fired or until all opponent ships have been destroyed.

If the Attacker has the First Strike ability, the Defender will not fire any of its weapons in return on the FIRST round of the attack.

Once the Attacker has gone, the Defenders return fire, even if the ship was destroyed in the first salvo. Note that this is not true if the Attacker has the First Strike ability.

So Example:

One Medium Cruiser, Five weapon mounts, Laser I. Total Attack: 5 No defense, HP: 20

vs

Three Tiny Fighters, Two Cannons Each, Sparrow. Total Attack: 6 No defense, HP:5/ship

Round One:

Cruiser engages Fighters. Rolls 1,1,1,0,0. Total Attack 3. Lead Fighter has No Defenses, Loses 3 HP.

Fighters Return Fire. Fighter A rolls 0,0. Fighter B rolls 1,1. Fighter C rolls 1,0. No defense. Cruiser loses 3 HP.

Round Two restarts the process. Even if the Cruiser manages to destroy the Lead Fighter in the second round, it will get to return fire when the Defense takes its turn.


Anyhow, the point to all that was your Defending Ships are going to get to fire NO MATTER WHAT, so use that to your advantage. Since you don't have the First Strike ability, let the AI come to you (make them chase you even) and use All Attack ships against them. The more weapons you can place on your ships the better, not necc. fewer more powerful ones.

EG

One Doom Ray can roll between a 0-22; which means you may actually inflict no damage on your opponent.

Five Psionic Beams can roll between 0-12, but it does it 5x so your chances of getting a hit are much higher.

Make sense?
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think if I can gift the Thalans my crappy/distant worlds given to me through the surrender, I can pull out of my economy dive.
End of quote


Pay special attention to the money that these worlds are making/losing. Choose the planets that are losing the most money; you will save the money that you are paying out to support them, and add a big drain to their economy at the same time. Also, destroy any structures that they may find useful, so that they will expend even more of their resources re-building them.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I will do that. How smart is the A.I. concerning this, and is it difficulty dependant? Will they recognize what a poison-pill some of these planets will be, or does it automatically regard a planet as a powerful bonus no matter what?
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It doesn't consider the value of a planet much. (Though which planet you offer DOES make a difference, if they want one planet more than another NEVER give them that one planet unless you're anxious to get rid of it, because it's a much better planet if they value it more.)
But with increasing difficulty, the value they will put on any planet will decrease...

What difficulty are you playing? And what are your odds.
What do you estimate that the planet equation is. (How many planets do they have, how many do you have?)


Edit: Also need to know:

Is there any Econ research you haven't finished yet? (check the Economy branch and the Government branch)
If you have any of these left to go, make them your priority.
I always say: "If you don't have the money to pay, you're gonna have to pray"
And praying won't do you much good in this game.

How close are you to the research victory? (which is the tech you'll have to research first)

And also important, are you sure your economic crash is due to your new planets and not to the Thalans wrecking your economy resource starbases?
Inherited planets usually can be very easily converted to money planets. Add a farm structure (also makes it hard to invade) and start cranking out economy buildings...
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Don't forget the idea of giving them a small world deep within your empire that is likely to culture flip back to you quickly. This allows you to have your cake and eat it too! (This is also a good way to trade for needed techs and cash.)

Scincerely,

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