Espionage: High and Advanced Levels Worthless?

Well supposedly (I'm just starting a high espionage game), you can steal more techs. And stealing techs is good. LOL

fleabitfox

Wait, there's an Advanced espionage level? At what amount of funding do you get it? I've been stopping at High's 900 BC amount, thinking that was the most one could get.

Hmm, but if you are the tech leader is there a point to higher levels of espionage?

I think the espionage system could some upgrading personally. The slider for spening is fine, but there should be some pop up at certain spending levels for you to choose a specific operation.

Dunno, just my 2c

Advanced level is very useful for stopping the Dread lord event!

Paul.

~SDC~

The highest level I've ever gotten a game message about occurs at around 1800-1900. I've never stolen tech, and once I forgot to stop investing in espionage and had a value of like 8000 or something.

BTW, the event that sends you to war because you aren't investing enough in espionage is poorly implemented, it should check the value of your investment, instead it checks how much you are currently investing. So it tells you that you have the war because you didn't know enough about the civ, where 8 turns earlier you were told you know everything about the civ (and thus stopped investing in espionage).

I've seen that espionage event occur between two minors, and once between myself and a minor. The problem: you can't do espionage on a minor civ. And I do think espionage needs a makeover.

I agree; after a while it just seems pointless; I look at the statistics and it lets me know what they're doing, but Id like to see more active espionage. For example, If I have infiltrated their highest lvels of government and know more than they do, they should be less likely to attack me since a lot of their leadership is beholdent to me for their free cash flow- or if they do, I should have great knowledge of their fleet, their battle plan, and such.

LMAO so there's a war event if you stop espionage. I never thought to stop it even after reaching the highest level of knowledge. Good thing. And I have stolen tech. I don't know whether this was random or because of espionage spending. It occured via one of the minor races. They ended up getting it all and you end up having to trade with them for it. I traded planets for tech, then proceeded to smash the minor race. Never trust a traitor... Not even one you create.

However, I did get a war event. One of my underlings assassinated the Torian emporer. His successer vowed revenge on my empire. Every ship then had a moniker "DieHumansDie!!" on it or something like that. Was really quite funny. I wonder whether that was random or as a result of my destabilization spending?

Has anyone CONFIRMED that you can actually steal tech via espionage? I one poured my whole economy, which was quite considerable, into espionage one to test it, and I didn't get one damn tech over 10-15 turns.

Pontius, if you have to trade to get it then you didn't steal it, someone else did.

I stop spending on espionage at the 1800-1900 level, the savings per turn by then can be significant even then (usually 5X50 BCs or so), later it can be huge (5X100 BCs or more). I'll take a very small risk of a random event war to save that sort of money.

One way they could implement tech theft would be to compare your level of espionage on the target race with the target race's level on you, and have your chance of success be based on the ratio between the two. This could produce some interesting strategy, because espionage is expensive but you certainly wouldn't want your tech stolen either if you are climing the tech tree in a serious fashion.

"Wait, there's an Advanced espionage level? At what amount of funding do you get it?"

You get it at around 1800 bc. The message you get says something to the effect that you now know everything there is to know about the empire. But, in fact you don't see anything more than what you get at medium level (300 bc).


I saw a recent post by someone in the strategy forum that said you cannot steal tech by espionage, only by random event or by invasion.

I agree that espionage needs a makeover, and I would say the same about destabilization. These are two of the more underdeveloped and uninteresting aspects of the game right now.

"I agree that espionage needs a makeover, and I would say the same about destabilization. These are two of the more underdeveloped and uninteresting aspects of the game right now. "

Absolutely- although I would argue alliances and the wars that result from a chain effect are more irritating.
Its still amazing though- I don't think many would doubt that this is one of the (if not the) best games out there, and yet Brad isn't willing to let it be. YOu know, if I ever graduate and get a job (junior in college currently) Id love to help back up the developers I have faith in (OOTP- Markus Heinson comes to mind first) .

I think "stealing tech" does involve "working closely" with one of the minor races who then gets all the other civ's tech. I've done it twice to the Drengin before realizing it was pointless... I could just trade with the Drengin instead.

I have stolen technology via espionage several times, but in each instance only after investing a substantial amount into it with a specific race. This is above and beyond the event where minor races steal everything and you get to barter to gain that technology.

yeah the espionage area is a train wreck as far as the rest of the game is concerned. I mean, what exactly are you paying for anyways? Info? Bah... how about more DETAILED info, plans, or even a set of options for events/ tactic to employ (assasinate, coup, etc.) "Drengin are moving ships into position to invade sector 69-69, we have a trade partner/ starbase/ planet in this area. What are your orders?"

Personally I could give a rat's ass to know that they are researching Porn Network or Trading with Bastardians. I wanna know where their sword is pointed and how sharp it is.

-HrK-

Some basic information that can be added to espionage include:

- Wonder and trade good construction progress
- Number of turns left until current research is completed
- Exact amount of trade, tribute, lease, and maintenance
- Reveal espionage and destabilization spending on higher levels, and perhaps even which empire it is being applied to
- Display effects of player destabilization on target empire
- A simple ship count akin to what is available in the diplomacy screen that can be viewed during war (that info is hidden from the diplomacy screen during war)
- Exactly diplomatic standing with other races
- Detailed info on alien trade routes

That's just off the top of my head, and I bet there's a lot more to add.

Za h is right on- This stuff bugs me as well. Espionage is really one of the things that needs to be addressed in the expansion pack.

It might also be nice on the advanced levels so be able to see through the fog of war around their planets, or be able to see what imporvements are there/what's being built. Also all the stuff Za H said. Espionage really seems almost pointless at this...um...point.

Why not also add sabotage or revolt to the mix? Maybe under the destablization side?

Actually, I've stopped using Espionage at all. I'm not a super grog at GalCiv, of course, but I haven't seen a real benefit in espionage.

The minor race thing is just a random event. Happens whether or not you put any money into espionage.

Is there are real point to espionage as it stands in GalCiv? I haven't seen one, other then MAYBE to avoid the random 'One of your people killed one of their people, and now you are at war'. That doesn't seem to come up enough for me to worry about it.

I use the overall ranking of each race, as well as their amount of military spending to determine who needs to be subdued and in what order.

~SDC~

It's good to have espionage at the level where you can see the AI stats, it can help you make decisions about what tactics will work on who, and who has control of what resources. This level is reached fairly quickly, I believe it's the 2nd level of espionage reached (around 300 or so BCs invested).