Frogboy Frogboy

Suggestions 1.03

Suggestions 1.03

New sticky thread. What are some things you'd like to see put into Galactic Civilizations? Thanks!
8,594 views 238 replies
Reply #126 Top
When I mentioned multiple fleets on the same spot, I would think the limit of 16 ships per square (if there is such a limit) would still apply. By extension, if two fleets of 10 ships are trying for the same square, then they both cannot occupy that.

PS: I don't run around with fleets much at all... haven't had a need on the levels I play at.

Damian

~SDC~
Reply #127 Top
Please add 'cancel all projects' of selected type and 'cancel all projects not in list' for current governor in governors screen. Good if you have conquered planets.

~SDC~
Reply #128 Top
How about a UP vote that "The creation of a bombardment unit will be allowed." or one that Prevents starbases from being assualted because "attacking the structures will be illegal under Galactic Law." or how about about one in that "All minor races are protected from onslaught from other civilizations." Sound good?

~SDC~
Reply #129 Top
A zooming lens in the diplomatic window to make fine tuning of money/influence easier: Adjust normally, then when you are near the point you want to reach, instead of having to type, use a lens which gives smaller steps.
Reply #130 Top
when in diplomacy be able to access a tech infoscreen which tells you what the techs being offered or given actually are. and if known their relative worth.
Reply #131 Top
1. I agree that Starbases should not be fogged.

2. Also, clearer indications on minimap and main map of explored areas that you can or can't see. The fog of war is too confusing. In Civ3 it is easier to see "dark" explored areas b/c there is terrain (like mountains and forest) where the brightness can be fiddled with to show you can't really see it. It is more challenging here, but I am sure you guys can figure out a way to make it superclear (unless I am just missing it... :notsure:

3. Also agree about locks on economic sliders.

4. Just throwing this out, but instead of total war planetary war options, how about a MOO2 system of marines that invade planets and if you conquer the planet you have to deal with mixed pops? Not saying your system is bad (I love the game) just that it made things more intersting the other way. Also, you can then assess Evil/Good penalties for using Mass Drivers and other nasty ways to conquer planets (since right now any invasion kills all original population, assigning those penalties might not make sense).

Thanks for listening, you guys are great!

Reply #132 Top
Ability to play with MAX AI ability but with no bonuses to production.

The MAIN reason I purchased GalCiv (over other competitors) b/c I was fascinated with its AI. Most games increase difficulty by giving computer players faster production. GalCiv increases AI prowess instead - until you get to the 2 highest levels where the AI gets both increased thinking ability AND bonuses.

I want to match wits with the smartest AI possible without it surpassing me constantly in production, etc. This is the single best suggestion I can make (although you are sure to read other "less superior" ones from me :)
Reply #133 Top
I have a good article about game balance (author - Zileas, gosu StarCraft player, designer of StrifeShadow RTS, site - shambler.net). It may help. At least it's best i ever see. It seems that Blizzard used some of that advices.

LONG POST

Lecture 8: Play Balance

Game balance, in the broadest sense, is derived from two major axioms of game design. The first is that players should have options and choices -- a game without choices is usually not really a game... choices and the interaction involved are what elevate a game from reciting a script, or watching a movie.
The second is that games should not have unnecessary components that dilute the gameplay. Choices that are never a "right" choice, or are almost always a wrong choice are not really choices at all, and are just noise that makes the rest of the game less compelling. Combine these two, and you have the basis of balance. Specific balance issues are listed below:

1) Dominant Strategies
A dominant strategy is a case where one choice is always better than the other. This is always bad, because its effectively one choice, with noise -- not a compelling bit of gameplay. In multiplayer games, this manifests itself as times where you always play the same strategy no matter what, or when one player can play a particular sequence of actions and responses that guarantee the other player will be at a disadvantage, no matter what.

2) The true "costs" of actions
Actions in most games have some inherent game-based cost, be it some resource, like gold or minerals, or in the case of many turn based strategy games, a turn, as well as some player time investment. There is also an inherent player time investment that is especially relevant in real time games, and somewhat (though not as) relevant in other games. Actions with low payoff, low game cost, but high player time investment, are generally less useful (and imbalanced-weak) compared to low payoff, mid game cost, low player time investment actions, simply because many players will refuse to "waste" a lot of time, or in the case of a real-time game, cannont afford to use such time in that way.

Several examples from Starcraft:

An example of this is mass zergling wave rushing being favored over a number of other more "cost effective" strategies. You could also consider the fact that a mass tank push vs protoss is theoretically unbeatable, but in practice, pretty easy to beat because of its difficulty of flawless implementation.

Its important to realize that actions have a concentration cost AND a game cost when dealing with real time games especially. You must balance both to keep all actions equally appealing in their own unique way.

3) Risks should correlate to Rewards, or Versatality is power
When an action is versatile, its allowing you to in effect make several actions, for the cost of one (or at least the concentration cost of one). It allows you to not use as much time when responding to a variety of things, and allows you respond to indeterminate situations with less risk... This can be a substantial benefit in many cases, and versatile actions that allow an adverse response from the other player (i.e. an attempted counter) should not be especially strong compared to less versatile actions, since versatility is "playing it safe".

4) Balance across skill levels
When dealing with a competitive game, you want skill differentiation -- when you have skill differentiation it is important to have balance be constant over skill levels for the most part. In this respect, it is important that as skill increases, that various game components increases in their apparent effectiveness. One potential hazard here is that in extreme situations, the game might just not be fun at all at a particular skill level.

5) Scenario Imbalances
Sometimes called "map imbalances", these are imbalances stemming from the initial conditions of the game. Sometimes, when you can start with different options individually, the "global" configuration of the game may be slanted towards favoring one particular individual configuration. Similarly, sometimes there may be only one global configuration, but specific starting "positions" or states might be better than others. As the alternative name implies, this is most apparent in situations where you have a map.

6) Dominant Playstyles
Similar to Dominant Strategies. Often, when playtesting your game, you will notice that there are several major playstyles which are at least somewhat feasible. Its important to try to cultivate as many playstyles as you realistically can (don't expect more than a few though), and to get them to the point where they are about equal in potency.

The distinction between dominant playstyles and strategies is that I define playstyles as being a more general approach to the game, and strategies as being specific responses to situations. In some games they are one and the same In some they are not.

7) Single-Player Games and Difficulty Balance
You don't want single player games to be too hard. In general, a good way to balance them is to balance them to slightly below the median skill level, and then add extra goodies for higher skill level people, or just add higher difficulty settings. It's also important to make sure that the game becomes progressively more difficult. Mech Commander is an example of a game with a big problem in this department, in that mission 3 out of 25, also known as the farm mission, was the hardest mission in the game, and prevented a lot of people from playing past the very beginning of the game. Don't do this!

8) Expected Return of Game Elements
You obviously should balance the power of things largely based on the cost to get them, and the value of the effect they can create. When dealing with something that becomes obsolete (which should be avoided, but has to happen in some types of games), consider the expected return over time, including the period after it grows obsolete. For instance, in a real-time strategy game, a unit that is good for the first 5 or 6 minutes, but that becomes obslete after, can be a bad thing, because normally when your units survive you come out ahead, but if you fight early on with this unit, and have survivors, its as good as dead as the game progresses...

9) The Basic Cost Effectiveness Equation
Cost effectiveness is Square Root of [Firepower*Hitpoints/Cost-squared]

Test it if you don't believe me. Firepower represents game effect, be it damage, or something else. Hitpoints represent the durability of the game element, which generally will be just that -- hitpoints. Cost is the cost it takes in the game, usually in terms of a game resource. Its harder to measure concentration of course.

Theres other equations too, but we wont cover them now, and I want to avoid too much vigorous hand-waving.


Implementing play balance
With all that theory aside, we can think about acutally balancing agmes. Play balance is one of the more difficult aspects of game design, and one that has broken all too many otherwise good games. Few designers consider the implications of their game in terms of play balance in initial design stages, and only a few more even think about it prior to a mid-alpha state of development, especially when dealing with computer games. The key, like many things in game design, is to think things through early so that you dont have a hellish task to complete later on. Making a system innately balanceable is the first step to making a balanced game -- some systems will be easier to balance than others, and some will be almost completely impossible to balance acceptably well. This lecture discusses how to make your games more balanceable, for the most part.

1) Modularize, Modularize, MODULARIZE!
Its important to modularize your design, as the title mentions. What I mean by this is breaking your game elements into seperate pieces, and trying to ensure that the play balance values of each influences only one game dynamic a piece. Theoretically, if you tweak the value, you then only influence but one thing's play balance state. An example of this going awry would be the Mutalisk in starcraft. It has two major purposes, those being anti-air primary attack and anti-land skirmishing. It shares a common attack for both purposes, as well as hitpoints, etc. Because of this, Blizzard had _extreme_ difficulty balancing it satisfactorily because to change the value of the attack or hitpoints influenced BOTH roles, rather than the problem role. (i.e. the land attack was consistantly too much, but if they downgraded it too much, they ended up with the unit being too weak against air... The Blizzardism for modularization (which is also good for hypnotizing impressionable business folks) is "Purity of Purpose", at least more or less.

2) Unnecessary Details are... Unnecessary
Dont add details that you dont need. Again, the purer the game design, the easier it will be to balance it. "Noise" in your design will probabaly undermine other factors too, and its hard to play balance when its hard to determine what variables are actually the significant ones. The more easily understood the game system is, the higher your chances of figuring it out well enough to balance it. When I was an inexperienced designer, I'd often add in details without thinking too much about it, and end up having to gut the system later on and trim off fat to get it play balanceable.

The Play Balance Process
The preferred approach to game balance, in my opinion, is:
1) Work out "balance on paper" and think through situations and counter situations. Try to get a feel for how you want things to work in general.
2) Balance the game for a wide but very select group of game elements, primarily BY FEEL. Exclude math at this point. Ensure that the game is balanceable as well, namely, that hooks to affect major game dynamics are in place.
3) Scale the balanceu from specific elements to similar elements using balance math, such as the fragmentation equation, and the effectiveness equations.
4) DO NOT rely on master math formulas, etc. You could write a PHD on this stuff, and theres always weird variables you wont account for. You CAN do a board game in pure math, but its still hard. Once you use math to scale things into relevant ballparks, go back again to your design instincts, and do a rigorous qualitative test to discover if things are working against other game elements as designed. This will tell you 100x more things than most balance math will.

Take Small Steps!

Inexperienced designers make radical changes to their play balance #s with every revision of the game. Don't be this designer! After your intial 1 or 2 play balance sweeps from your initial qualitatively balanced set of elements, take it slow! Although well-designed and modularized systems will resist this, most game systems tend to have balance #s that are easy to "overshoot". If you dont take baby steps, changing one or a very few elements in very small amounts at a time, it will be hard to seperate out the effects of doing these things. Also, when attacking a specific problem, try just tweaking ONE quantity at a time.

Players Play Consistantly

If you have an imbalance in one stage of your development, your playtesters will continue to play with a playstyle that reflects it. Give playtesters time to adapt to changes in your state of balance, and strongly encourage them to try different approach. Top notch QA people will do this without being asked, but most of them either get other jobs, or get promoted to design, so you won't have many top notch QA people. Similarly, fans are inexperienced testers and wont know this either. Be careful!

Dont Be Afraid to Force What You Want!

If you want something to be more effective, MAKE IT MORE EFFECTIVE. Sometimes you try and try to work around something to get a result by altering indirect contributors. Don't do this too much when a simple straightforward approach will work.

An example of this in my experience developing was when I wanted to be able to have certain units be countered strongly by certain other units, and yet strong against other units. I tried to make this work through movement rates, and ranges, and a lot of other things... I also had an armor system that had some semblance of reality, but was primarily a game design construct. After 8 or 9 hours of wasted effort, I just made a system that applies an effectiveness coefficient to every units attack, vs any other unit (i.e. its a table of values for every unit vs every unit), which gets me EXACTLY the effect I want, without screwing up tons of other things by altering indirect forces on this. Of course, those indirect forces still cause things to work a certain way (like high speed, moderate range units eat slow melee units), but I can close the gap with anything that needs such a change by changing a single number -- which is completely and utterly modularized.

The downside here of course is that doing too many "Secret modifiers" or whatever you want to call them tends to make the game less intuitive. I got around this by pressing my modifiers in directions that the units were "supposed" to work anyway.

Workshop:
1) Study how chess pieces are balanced relative to each other. Why are the strongest pieces the strongest, and how might you analytically measure chess piece effectiveness?

2) Is monopoly a balanced game? If not, suggest some fixes. Otherwise, suggest why it is in fact balanced.

~SDC~
Reply #134 Top
A lot more events. A pack of Stardock certified user made events would be fine too.

The alarm clock Moo3 gave. Of course with Moo3 everyone fell asleep in the first hour. But GalCiv begsfor it. I was up till 2:30 Am thismorning and I really need my sleep.
Reply #135 Top
The following things are really important, IMHO:

1- Auto-explore. The algorythem can be as simple as "pick the nearest unrevealed square and move to it" but exploring, espicially on larger maps, is unnecessarilly tedious.

2- Either the ability to r-click or to "hover" the mouse over Trade Goods and Techs in the diplomacy screen to get a quick description as to what they do.

3- Limit starbase bonuses to only the "best bonus" per sector. Four or Five statbases with +10 attack to all ships is silly and makes invading a player sector effectively impossible.

4- Option not to pop up the planet queues when ships are constructed. This may already exist, but I certainly can't find it.

5- Documentation. As it stands, the "quick start guide" looks like it's made from the Beta version, the pdf manual lists bonuses to different partys that are completly wrong, and I *still* don't know how to setup a custom Play-List.

6- Ability to obsolete ships. When I have Excaliburs, I prolly won't want to build scouts anymore and showing scouts in my build option list just clutters up the interface.

Not as important, but would really improve gameplay:

1- Ability to suggest policies in the Council. Perhaps at a steep bc cost (say 5% of the galaxy wide GNP) and/or the suggesting race only gets to use half of it's influence on that bill. (The rest of the influence assumed to be used to "push the bill through")

alternatively, maybe the race should have to use diplomacy to convince all the other major races to make an emergency meeting for a certain bill. This would still cost a decent amount of resources in persuading the other races to meet.

2- Option on game setup to have the Council meet twice as often / normal / half as often

3- The Council shuoldn't keep re-submitting the same bills. Maybe an already submitted bill should have a "table length" of 10 years during which it isn't chosen.

4- The Council should be more dynamic. If Death^H^H^H^Hread Stars are banned for five years by popular vote, in five years the bill should be reviewed and either extended or dropped.

5- In game ability to view the tech tree as an actual tree. It's very difficult to figure out how to get to Large Scale Construction or whatever as it stands. Some of the very low techs are immediate pre-requesites for very high level techs, which gives the impression that if I research it I will have access to that (much higher) level tech soon. Instead, the player is bewildered as to why their new hull tech didn't lead to "Large Scale Construction" because he/she doesn't realise that there are a ton of much higher level techs required.

6- Ability to set specific research goals. ie- "I want Diplomacy. Get me there." and the game auto-picks the necessary pre-requesites until the player gets Diplomacy.

7- Ability to rename governers would be nice. Mr. Ford isn't as descriptive to me as "Mining Planet" would be.

8- Ability to estimate trade-lane value based on start and endpoints.

9- "Sector Defender" mission in which a ship escorts any trade vessels moving through a particular sector, or "Trade Escort" mission in which a ship follows a trade vessel around all the time. As it stands, protecting trade routes is almost impossible.

10- "Auto-Max" option when trading. I should be able to pick a duration (in months) or a cost (in BC) and have the game automatically calculate the other factor that still leads to a "green" result. As it stands, selling things is unnecessarilly tedious.

All that comes to mind at the moment.

Chris Woods


~SDC~
Reply #136 Top
For each planet, right above the "Auto-launch ships" box put a "Repeat Build" box.
Reply #137 Top
Setup Option: Toggle for 'Enable Resources' (Yes or No). Would be interesing playing maps with no resources, or merely one of each kind.

Game balance suggestions:

Adjust the balance of the game back towards prior to 1.03A.059.

SB costing 5 each is nothing at mid and late game, but crippling to early game. And in a middle sized galaxy, just grabbing the resources one knows about typically cripples empires ecomonies, especially the AIs. Minor races run away with the game early on, until some empire recovers, if it can (small AI empires are not), and then runs them over.

Upping the construction shields needed to build constructors has not reduced Infinite Starbase Construction. It merely changes worlds building a constructor from every turn to every other turn.
Reply #138 Top
It would be great if as we go through the individual planet screens to launch ships or change what we are building if we could see the starmap and where this planet is located on the starmap. This is very important because I can't remember where all my planets are and when deal with their settings I need to know in what area of the starmap they are in.
Thanks
Reply #139 Top
Better keyboard support would be really nice for those mid-late game phases, particularly in non-military conquest lines

Such as all those dialogs with the Done button, you should be able to just click Enter/Space or something to close it. Arrow keys should change selected item in lists, etc...

Right now it's really mouse intensive just to get through the production reports at the start of every turn.
Reply #140 Top
I'm sure I'm repeating a bunch but here goes with my wish list...

- Keyboard (space/enter) support for the "done" button

- Option to change player race color to something a little brighter than the darkish blue. Also the option to make starbase icons show in our color.

- The ability to specify galaxy size, or at least a new level halfway between large and huge. ;)

- A step or two of zoom in the main star map would be great (out not in...though in would look cool too).

- The option to scale range and speed for map sizes.
Reply #141 Top
How about
- a dotted line showing path from ship and it's destination in the main view
- if you click a 2nd time on production/population toggle for the mini-map, it will show a number instead of colored circles
- when patrolling a sector, if the ship sees an enemy vessel, it will automatically move that turn allowing you to respond to the threat if necessary

~SDC~
Reply #142 Top
sorry the third item in the list was supposed to be "when patrolling a sector, if the ship sees an enemy vessel, it will NOT automatically move that turn allowing you to respond to the threat if necessary "

~SDC~
Reply #144 Top
I'm sure this has been suggested before.

The game maintains a list of ships that need to be moved, and it REALLY, REALLY wants to make sure that you move them in that order. After you move one ship, the game jumps to the next ship in the list.

This is severely annoying. Consider, for example, if one ship is in the NW quadrant of the galaxy and the next ship is in the SE quadrant of the galaxy. You have just finished moving the NW ship, and you get a very brief glimpse of something really cool up there before the game tells you,"You really didn't want to see that up there. You'll get to see it next turn, if you remember... If it was really important for you to know about, we'd let you stop and take a look at it." So, the game jumps you to that very next ship.

Let's say you've just started a new game turn, and you want to start out by moving three or four ships in one particularly important quadrant. Sorry! The game has its own ideas about which ships to move and in which order. If you move one of those ships, the game immediately jumps to the first ship in its predetermined order.

Grrr!!
Reply #145 Top
I would like to see more differentiation betwen planets: Some could have special resources or features that really made a BIG difference, as in Civilization III. That would create a new strategic dimension, e.g. which ones to go after in a war.
Reply #146 Top
(1) Auto-explore

(2) Routes to patrol, maybe via waypoints, so we can defend trade routes

(3) Wasted resources. Maybe you can put the wasted enerygy into credits if it is too hard to roll to something else? Or, maybe the extra resources could be rolled into another area of production (military, social, research) based on what is set as your highest percentage and moving downwards.

(4) A way to set a predetermined amount for colony/transport ships so that you can use auto-launch

(5) A way to view uncolonized systems that you can reach.
Reply #147 Top
1) More comprehensive reporting: trade goods, ships owned, resources owned etc. Mainly I'm thinking of a report like in Europa Universalis. A lot of this information is already available - but buried in subscreens all over the interface

2) More useful espionage functionality. As implemented currently, it is not very useful (all the useful information we want is already in the little graphs window already). Would be nice if it had information like in MOO or Civ 1-3 (ships, all techs researched, planet specific info, feelings towards you and others, etc).
Reply #148 Top
Replace the horiontally scrolling sort options with pull down lists.

~SDC~
Reply #149 Top
First, I like nearly everything about the game, that is, I would like most things to stay as they are. LOL

That said, there is a small handful of gripes of the I-don´t-understand-how-this-could-be-overlooked sort which I would love to see adressed. In approximate order of importance:

*VERY, VERY, VERY IMPORTANT:* Lack of a Database. You should *not* need to go to the internet for a complete list of the ships/units/technologies in one place. This list (with costs, values and all) should either be in the manual or in the game. Really.

*VERY IMPORTANT*: Lack of reward, if you win. That was disappointing. The least you should get is a one-page-description, listing:

-Starting conditions
-Most important events, with date (not a must, but would be nice)
-Type of victory and score
-A selection of virtual trophies for particular achievements
-And all this should be saved to a high-score list, of course

(I realize that the Metaverse is supposed to do that, but
-it´s not very detailed, and
-submission doesn´t work for me, anyway. >:( )

*IMPORTANT*: Saves lose information. Sector influence is not correctly remembered, neither are attitudes. (I suspect that a substantial part of the info is not saved, but recalculated, which can lead to inconsistencies, if you play the game in many small portions, like I do. Personally, I prefer the largest save-game file to the smallest inconsistency.) To sum it up: If you save and later reload, the situation should be *exactly* the same, not just approximately.
Reply #150 Top
Wow! What a bunch of great ideas. Almost like a new game.
1) I'm with Sunwolf, find a way to mark anomalies.
2) Morelyn's idea about saving the basic setting from game to game makes sense.
3) Redshift's idea about the tech tree is good. I know there are a couple of published versions on this site, but I can't get them to print properly. A tree that's simple to read and print would be wonderful!
4) I don't really agree with Joe Bfstplk about keeping the game real simple (sorry 'bout that :p ). It IS a civ game after all, and real-life civilization IS kinda complicated.
5) Biggest thing on my wish list: help in keeping track of things (lots of citizens mentioned lots of possible solutions - I agree with almost all of them).

Great game, overall. I'm impressed, and all the more so because it didn't get a lot of attention. Anyway, the folks who wrote this one did their homework. Congratulations! And THANKS!!!!!