Ground Invasion Options

Regularly, no, but usually because (a) I bring enough troops to subdue the populace without the additional advantage, (b) I have a tech advantage, which means I don't NEED the additional bonuses, and (c) I don't like most of the planet-destroying options.

That said, I've had over 20,000BC in my treasury at times... if I invade a world where the fight I going to be even remotely close then, I won't hesitate to Mini-Soldier the planet.

- Ash

~SDC~

I used them a ton last night. There are cases, especially early game, where it helps. Large galaxy, all intelligent, I decided to go pure evil. Wouldn't ya know it, the altarans are right next door and start giving me funny looks. I was forced to attack pre-emptively at a tech disadvantage. Three of their six systems were in one sector and had something like 30 billion people total (I'm not kidding... one system had 20 billion by itself, and this was the battleaxe stage of the game... multiple 20+ planets). Anyway, my survey ship + a starbase roasted their military, but I only had a handful of transports to bust through and deny them their planets. With my tech disadvantage, I only had about a 6 to 3 ground combat ratio. Well, mass drivers started raining from the sky... at only 1000 bc each, I could afford these by temporarily setting my spending to 0. I also tried gas warfare and core detonations... it was a messy, expensive campaign but it worked.

While I'm here, I was going to post regarding something that may or may not be flaky. When you invade with mass drivers (or other planet destroying enhancements) and are repelled, there is *no* damage to the planet quality. This enables a mildly cheesy tactic, where I waltz into a fight that I know I'm going to lose no matter what (1 bil vs. 15 bil with tech disadvantage), use mass drivers to inflict 12 billion casualties without hurting the planet, and then bring in a 'clean-up' transport to take the planets via traditional warfare. Bingo, I win against impossible odds without harming the planets in the slightest.

@Madfizz: yeah, that does sound flaky. Go holler at Brad about it. I don't see any good criticism threads on the board yet today... I'm sure he could use a couple ego-deflators on this cheery Friday.

- Ash

~SDC~

"m sure he could use a couple ego-deflators on this cheery Friday." LOL

Interesting...I suppose that is rather cheezy. We'll probably end up changing that for the next patch. :notsure:

Although it might sound cheesy, just think how much worse it would be if it were "fixed". You could literally destroy a system by sending in a steam of cheap and nearly empty transports with mass drivers. Now imagine Brad programming the AI to take advantage of this and it'll be our worse nightmare LOL

That's a very good point ZaH. What a conundrum this little issue is.

~SDC~

ZaH:

I thought of that too, but I'm not convinced it's a problem. If you can maintain space superiority long enough to do that and afford the 1000s of bcs it would cost, why shouldn't you be able to wreck up their system?

It will only take one turn for a stack of transports to wreck a system. You don't even need a very good escort because you can just overrun the defense with pure numbers. Money is hardly a concern either since cash is very easy to accumulate if you just suspend your empire's sending for a few turns. Now this doesn't mean I am opposed to such a "fix", but I do want to bring up the point that if this tactic is utilized by the AI we will see many players pulling their hair out in agony.

Hmm... well, the option of wrecking a world at 1k a pop rather than investing the population to overcome the defenses ... seems ok to me. Nice tactic for a hit-n-run attack.


~SDC~

"You could literally destroy a system by sending in a steam of cheap and nearly empty transports with mass drivers."

Yes, but you'd have to have the cash to do it. The troops would be cheap and easy, but doing it on a regular basis would require a significant amount of dough.

Compromise: set a limit to the number of times the different attacks can be used in a given system. Tidal disruptors, for instance, are only going to be able to take out the shoreline once... after that, there's no shoreline left to take out, so they'd be useless. If it was only possible to use an attack, say, twice, on a particular system you'd have to be judicious about when to use it.

- Ash

~SDC~

I'd actually like to see the AI try to pull something like this off. At the moment, I'm perfectly content to allow the AI to walk all over me militarily until combat transports show up. Nothing it does is gonna hurt me or my systems as it is.

In fact, I'd like to see some series of tech based bonuses that allow non-transport ships to bombard planets and destroy population and improvements. There's just no reason to bother to defend most systems, since only transports can hurt ya.

yeah uh, I'd liek to point out that if you guys have thousands of BC in your treasuries this early in the game you're obviously not expanding or playing very hard, beacause in the first part of the game up to dreadnoughts i'm usually in the negative because i push my economy so hard, and you usually need space superiority to get transports into enemy systems.

Shortage of cash? I've not played a ton of games yet, but cash has not been a problem. Diplomacy is so powerful that the dimwit aliens will pretty much give you everything you need if you just ask.

I'm really not concerned about the AI being able to do this sort of thing. The AI's ability to execute ground combat as it stands is not its strong suit (though it does some other things extremely well).

I use the mini-soldiers all the time. Keeps the planet intact and means more of my troops convert to population. If I think I can't hold the planet I will use core disruptors or tidal waves to maul the planet...

"just think how much worse it would be if it were "fixed". You could literally destroy a system by sending in a steam of cheap and nearly empty transports with mass drivers. Now imagine Brad programming the AI to take advantage of this and it'll be our worse nightmare"

i did that on purpose to deny the yor a chance to recapture a a planet too close to me. It took a class 20 down to a class 9! In this case i denied the yor of one of their better planets when they were still way ahead of me.

~SDC~

I dont generally use them. In fact I have only used them once. I dont use them because I really have no need to. Shrinking a planet's population doesnt have a crippling impact on production, and playing on normal/bright my troops seem to get about a 5 to 1 kill ratio most invasions.

I think that taking a star system is too easy and should be tweaked some. The defenders need more of an inherent advantage.

olaf