Hamsterific Hamsterific

Of the Drath

Of the Drath

Is this just me?

I am playing beta 4b.

For Twilight of the Arnor I've started to play the different races rather than being staunchly Terran and Yor. I felt that as Stardock have implemented the wonderful new tech trees I should give them a whirl and see which one I prefer.

The other day I finshed a game as the Altarians, and today I began a game as the Drath. I scanned the tech tree to see where the unique technologies lay and what was in store for me, and found the Altarian tech tree. All the unique Altarian techs were there, with no Drath markers on them, just as normal techs.

Is this supposed to happen, or are the Drath a work in progress? Or has the beta just not downloaded properly?
12,318 views 37 replies
Reply #26 Top

It's not an accusation if it's true.
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Now that's completely weak sauce. I mean, jebus, if I do stoop to calling you names, will you also chant "I'm rubber, you're glue" at me?

I mean, hell, you insisted, INSISTED, that the inclusion of that option and the limitations as such would "cripple" the game, using your impenetrable point of the game is too hard for me. Despite the fact that I explained that generally still 95% of any given tech tree would still be able to be traded, you remained oblivious and stuck to your own little submission that the AI-exploited, abusable, broken tech trading system was flawless.
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I did not say that the game is too hard for me. I said that making your so-called "option" the default for tech trading (which is explicitly what you wanted) would make tech trading worthless, and would make the game harder for some races over others, simply because they have holes in their tech trees that they can only fill by trading for techs - like the Altarians (and Drath) and morale techs, or the Yor or Iconian and economic techs.

I also never said that the tech trading system is flawless.

And, no, 95% of the tech trees would not be available to be traded. Some weapons, some drives, some defenses, and depending on race, some planetary improvements and starbase modules would be tradeable across most races. Specifically, techs that relate to holes in any given race's trees would not be tradeable, because they don't have those techs. So Altarians could never trade for upgrades to either of their morale paths because they don't have anything past the first tech in those parts of the tree.

What do you expect me to call you? Intelligent? Sagacious? I don't know anybody that actually thinks the tech trading system DOESN'T suck, so I suspect you're a liar. You denied my idea on the principle that the game is "too hard" based on a race that has not been tested or even implemented completely. What am I supposed to think?
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This is what I expect from you: The ability to address my arguments, and not attack me as a person. The ability to address what I actually posted and not warped interpretations that you claim I posted to justify your little anti-me crusade. For example, I never said the tech trading system doesn't suck. I never said the game was "too hard," as I noted above. Do you even understand the difference between "the game shouldn't be harder if you play race A over race B" vs. "race B's tech tree makes them impossible to play?" Here's a hint: I never said the latter.

You understand the idea that certain choices shouldn't make the game harder than other choices because you have argued at length to balance the morality choices so that evil is not advantaged over good, so why is it that it's okay for some races to be advantaged over other races? Why can you not see that this is exactly the same principle without claiming that I said stupid things that I did not say? Is it just remotely possible that you have trouble dealing with disagreement? You attack anyone who doesn't fall into line with your ideas. I mean, you try to tear into them, again, as we can see in the morality threads as well as the tech trading threads, and as we can see here.

Can't you try to engage like a mature human being, or is it that important for you to be considered right all the time that you're just not able to disagree without acting like a complete ass in the process?

No, let me explain to you. I called you a retard because you vehemently denied my submission in an extremely long-winded and boring post about how one race is too hard for YOU without piling up on ridiculous, exploitable unique-tech benefits.
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You're repeating yourself, and I didn't do that. In fact, I won the game I was talking about, and I didn't exploit unique tech benefits. I did trade up the morale tree to get better morale so I could build a fleet that could keep the Drengin at bay because I could not afford a fleet to fight off the Drengin without better morale buildings that would also allow me to add farms, which would increase my population and thus my income. That's not an exploit, and the fact that you have to resort to calling it an exploit just shows how you consider the way you play to be the only legitimate way to play, and how you're willing to cover yourself in mud just for the sake of shouting down anyone who doesn't agree with you 100%.

I alluded to you having some sort of mental trauma because you were fabricating laughably untrue "facts" about how certain races perform to support your point, and therefore, in your own words, were against changing tech trading to allow you to overcome these phantom weaknesses - weaknesses that, whether or not they exist, are implemented intentionally.
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Laughably untrue? I've played all of those races at least once under beta 3, and some of them again under beta 4. That's how they performed. If you look around, you can see other posters saying the same thing I did. I'm not alone in these impressions. In fact, I question whether you've even gone so far as to select those races to see their stats, let alone played one.

I wasn't against changing tech trading, I was against your suggested sweeping change to tech trading.

I also realize that those weaknesses - which do exist - are implemented intentionally. I do not agree with them, but if they're going to stay, I'd like to be able to work around them.

Yet the only way to overcome any weakness, like Torian research, is in your games, by getting the Discovery Spheres tech and combining it with your own +research% techs - and this behavior is perfectly acceptable to you - because Torians are probably too hard for you as well.
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You shouldn't base your arguments on something as flimsy as anything I didn't say. Like, for example, that the races were "too hard" for me to play.

I see you as my inferior, and until you manage to stop sending little posts of concentrated idiocy, I suspect you will stay as such, and I'll simply treat you as one.
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And you had the gall to ask me for an apology, while spewing nonsense like this? Did you notice that I've pretty much ignored you - except once, to correct a laughably wrong assertion that you made - since those arguments?

Correct me if I missed something here. If you can't, I suggest you get a god damn spine and at least try to fabricate a valid counterargument to restricted tech trading that isn't COMPLETELY asinine.
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You missed everything here. You're not arguing with me, you're arguing with a straw man that you're pretending is me. You may even think if you yell loud enough, your false characterizations may be taken as truth, but the threads are still there for anyone to read. You're right that the arguments you're complaining about are asinine, but I didn't make them.

Like I said, you're pissed off because I don't agree with you. It's all about your ego, not my ability to present an argument. Until you can get over yourself enough to realize that it's not all about you and you're not entitled to have everyone fall down on their knees and praise your ideas to the stars, you'll keep throwing tantrums when you encounter disagreement. If that's the impression you want to give people, fine, but stop trying to drag me into your mud.

I'm not your inferior. I'm smart enough to tell the difference between a person and his argument. Maybe someday you learn to do this as well.
Reply #27 Top
Oh, and for god's sake, U-235, learn to read:

Flaming wastes time - Don't do it.
Don't waste our time.

By CariElf
Posted November 20, 2006 11:54:20

Please don't flame each other's feedback about the beta. It makes that much more stuff that I and the other developers have to wade through to get to people's feedback on the game. It doesn't help me to know that you think that another beta tester is a moron. If you disagree with something that someone has suggested, reply with why you don't like their idea. And don't just say I think it's stupid. Say why you don't like it: "That would add too much micromanagement", or "That would make it too complicated", or something along those lines. Please keep posts in this forum constructive so that we can make Dark Avatar the best game possible.
End of quote

Reply #28 Top
Users like U-235 are why I prefer the GameFAQs/GameSpot boards. I found at least 3 or 4 violations in that last post alone that would have gotten his account suspended by themselves, and taken in its entirety would most likely have gotten his account banned. Which would be a shame, he does have the occasional interesting idea. Too bad those ideas aren't worth putting up with his tantrums.
Reply #29 Top
Phaedyme stop feeding the trolls! If you respond to him he will only carry on and we hardly need more of his angry nonsense.

[Breaking my own rule here....]

That said this made me laugh:

I see you as my inferior, and until you manage to stop sending little posts of concentrated idiocy, I suspect you will stay as such, and I'll simply treat you as one.
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LOL! I have the same relationship with my mother cat. It regards me as an inferior, mind you I really couldn't care less, it can avoid being run over/trodden on if it wants.
Reply #30 Top
Phaedyme stop feeding the trolls! If you respond to him he will only carry on and we hardly need more of his angry nonsense.
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Tis why I just stopped even attempting to converse with Uranium - 235. It definitely reduces the blood pressure of all those reading the boards. Phaedyme, please take this advise to heart.
Reply #31 Top
Hmm, this seems to have gone rather off-topic. But now that it is over maybe we can do something constructive by making suggestions about supplements/alterations to diversify the Drath and Altarian tech trees. It'd be interesting to see what others think.

Before I begin I'll say that I've played a game as the Altarians, but not the Drath.

Personally I'd like the Drath to play more to their strengths, which seems to be manipulation, if this is the case a tech such as Information Control which gives you access to the Information invasion tactic for free. This would also help to counteract their slow population growth.
Running with this idea the Drath supposedly have good soldiers but not enough men to fight a proper war, so a line of techs involving this would also be useful. One idea I have would be to improve the number of converts from information warfare and/or improving their soldiering quality due to their ferocious presence.
Also for the Drath I think that a change in the Diplomacy path would be most interesting, for example instead of Diplomatic Relations I'd like to see something more like Negotiating Strategy and Manipulation Technique, in other words the Drath increse diplomacy by learning underhanded methods such as bribery and blackmail.

Now the Altarians are a very benevolent culture, the antithesis of the Drengin as it were, so maybe they could have a building that has the secondary effect of increasing influence along with morale, perhaps public gardens and national parks, or perhaps a line of 'Honest Trading' which provides slightly weaker economy buildings, but with extra influence attached.
Reply #33 Top
Actually, I don't know if it would be best discussed here, but are there any differences in the invasion tactics as the game is right now? Meaning, are there any UNIQUE invasion tactics in TA? That would be a good way to differentiate (sp) the races. The Yor could have some kind of robotic airstrike tactic, while the Iconians use some obscure precursor tech-weapon or something
Reply #34 Top
Yeah, Hamster Man, I would suggest starting a new thread, sans the....events in this thread.
Reply #35 Top
Actually, I don't know if it would be best discussed here, but are there any differences in the invasion tactics as the game is right now? Meaning, are there any UNIQUE invasion tactics in TA? That would be a good way to differentiate (sp) the races. The Yor could have some kind of robotic airstrike tactic, while the Iconians use some obscure precursor tech-weapon or something
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No, there aren't (yet) any unique Invasion Tactics. Races don't have access to all the invasion tactics, however, so there is some difference there.

As for whether they might add them in... when I modded in some new invasion tactics, they wouldn't display on the tech screen or the nifty new right-click tech info display as being unlocked by that tech unless the tech was one of the standard Invasion Techs. They were actually available when you invaded, though. Given this fact, I'm thinking adding in new Invasion Techs/Tactics isn't on their minds.

Hopefully, though, they will make it so unlocked invasion tactics show up on the Tech Info displays correctly :)
Reply #36 Top
Hi!

I found Drath Legion as my best race in TA beta 5.

Strong Soldiers :
Racial Soldiering Ability + 50
Invincible Soldiers from starting abilities +30
Planetary Bombardment +5
Tidal Disruption + 15
Stellar Marines + 15
Planetary defense Techs + 30
Tri-Quan Training + 25
Ultimate Shock Troops (Stolen from Drengin) + 25

Soldiering 195 % simply send in one transport with 2000 troops to resolve any problem. Saves lot of money when invading enemy planets, you don't need to build fleets to take enemy property.

Or if problem comes to You, they will get good welcoming committee

Good Economy:
War Profiteering i just make sure that there is constant war between AI's

Excellent Warships:
Doomsday Generator gives space to fit in more weapons instead of using Hull Upgrades.

Tech Leader:
Creativity Bonus (+25) + Creative Goods (+25) = Creativity + 50

Techs just pop up like crazy.

Population Growth Problem:
I usually pick frisky population growth to patch their lacks in love science then go for first tier farms then basic trade centers then temples and finally temple of mithrilar which gives +75% boost to morale. Later Xeno Biology + Xeno Medicine (10 % pop growth) and if possible which normally is tech trade for Fertility Accelerators.
Usually one of the Minor Races has Weather Control Zenith's (+ 3 planet Quality) and if you add Divergent Evolution with Biosphere Modulators on top of that you will surely have the space for Recruitment Centers which gives you another 20 % to population growth.

Population Growth:
Racial Defect - 20 % (Terrans need to trade them some movies with Hugh Grant lol)
Frisky + 15 %
Xeno Medicine + 10 %
Recruitment Center + 20% from Space Militarization

Keep the morale on highest level possible and you make Drath Legion unstoppable in night time ;)

All that info is well known to you guys but i decided to share this information for one reason. Today i crushed Painful AI on Huge Galactic with nine races for first time in my life and I'm not a good player...Soldiering kept me from being invaded, not a single planet fell to enemy. I started to counter enemy ships , thanks god to War Profiteering which paid for my upgrades in early wars. I finished with 24 850 pts. Drath Legion is race made for pure warmongering and thanks to their diplomatic bonus ( + 30) and super manipulator ability which gives an edge when it comes to decide who goes first. Today i'll jump to Crippling Difficulty just to check if i can cope with AI's using this strategy.

Sorry for bad english...
Reply #37 Top
The Drath are one of my favorite races as well. I think they are the best race in the game for a diplomatic play style. They have a weak economy due to slow population growth and inability to research concepts of malice (the prerequisite for the MCC). However, after a couple of fairly early techs they have +11% war profiteering. Their super manipulater ability, combined with their starting diplomacy bonus and +25% diplomacy unique tech, means that it is very easy for them to get every other race in war. Their cumulative weapon bonuses from the dark energy research line are +60. These weapon bonuses can combine with the SCC to give massive military ratings fairly easily (which again helps with diplomacy.

They have a few other things going for them as well. The soldiering bonus is high enough it actually is useful for defense (and handy on attack as well). The biosphere modulator give space for a couple more econ buildings on each planet, which helps to mitigate their economic issues. Overall, they may not be rich, but they are admirably suited to setting the galaxy on fire and then picking off the weakest targets one at a time. I like them a lot.