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THE CASE FOR THE ROBOTS AND THE MINORS.

THE CASE FOR THE ROBOTS AND THE MINORS.

Now I know it is too late for this big of a change.


But both the Yor and Dark Yor are robots. Robots wouldn't care what the air is like on a planet Nor would they care about radiation. In fact a Robot may be able to use said radiation for more energy.

The only planet type I can see Robots having problems with are water planets. Electronics and water don't make the best of friends.

What I am saying is that the robots should get all of the extreme planets for free except water worlds which would be double or trible in cost. They would also have to pay to upgrade their entire population to be able to use a water planet.



I was also thinking that minors should once again be able to colonize at will. The limitation should be on ship size and no super abilities.
10,052 views 40 replies
Reply #26 Top
THe Yor are robots created by the Iconians to server them on their planets there for their bodies would have been designed with similar Radiation/Gravity/Humidity tolerances as found on the Iconian home world. However they are more tolerant of worlds without atmosphere than organics since they don't need it.

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The Iconians would have designed their robots just as we are doing right now. To be able to take on the more dangers jobs. So that they wouldn't have to. Ie take care of a nuclear core, operate in a toxic atmosphere, operate in a vacuum. Things like that. And yes they would have had sweeper bots too.


the places I would want intelligent or semi-intelligent robots would be in the nuke power plants and in the deep mines. So that they wouldn't blow up the plant or collapse the mines. The robot factory wouldn't have to be any smarter than the car factories that we have today.


Our deepest mines are right now just about as deep as humans can go with the pressure problem and we are only about 3 miles deep or so.
Reply #27 Top
Those two little robots on mars are good examples of how the more dangers the job the more intellect the robot has to have. Yes they are remote controlled but they have to be able to get themselves out of trouble because help is like 10 minutes away.
Reply #28 Top
I love how you pretty much ignore what anyone else says and just keep rambling on.

You bore me.
Reply #29 Top
I love how you pretty much ignore what anyone else says and just keep rambling on.

You bore me.
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just because I disagreed with what they have said doesn't mean that I ignored them. It simple means that I disagree with them.


There are three main reasons to build Robots.

1 to do jobs that we cannot do.
2 to do jobs that we do not want to do.
3 to do jobs that we do not have enough people to do.


jobs that we cannot do.

work in a nuke core
work below a certain depth underground or underwater.


jobs we do not want to do

sweep the floor
cook
weed

jobs we do not have enough people to do

factories.


these three things are what most races would build their robots to do. meaning that they would or at least some of them would be able to take a lot more punishment than their living counter parts could.


Now this is an assumption on my part. But, if the Robots did rebel would they not use the toughest models to build themselves after. Sure in human(Iconian) form but modeled after the ones that could take the most punishment.
Reply #30 Top
My mental image of a robot civilization is greatly influenced by James Hogan's novel "Code of the Lifemaker" - the only novel I know where robot evolution to sentience is central to the story and approached in a believably scientific way.

All robots, including the Yor, have an environmental range where they can function - as do we. We and they can extend that range using protective coverings, vehicles and structures. I don't think it is reasonable to assume the Yor can simply redesign themselves for a hostile environment anymore than we could. The Dread Lords gave them sentience but they did not give them an understanding of the technology that made that possible - otherwise they wouldn't be competing for domination of the galaxy - they would rule it outright.

Having the ability to colonize barren worlds seems reasonable for a mechanical intelligence but the others they need to research the hard way - just like the rest of us.
Reply #31 Top
I was also going to cite 'Code of the Lifemaker'.

If you remember the book, JM, at one point the humans were dealing with the main robotic character, and one human mentions to the another. "See the little guy there, he's made of solidified mercury. If we brought him onto our ship, he'd be a puddle in less than a minute."

Just a specific to highlight your environmental range point.

Although I thought the reproduction method was hokey, and shoe-horned into mimicing the process for living beings. (all robots carried half the plans for the next generation robot. To reproduce, one robot would have to download his plans to the receptive part of the pairing. The one with both sets of plans would face reduced capacity while her systems integrated her half-plans with the downloaded half plans, and the newly designed robot was constructed.)
Reply #32 Top


There are three main reasons to build Robots.

1 to do jobs that we cannot do.
2 to do jobs that we do not want to do.
3 to do jobs that we do not have enough people to do.


jobs that we cannot do.

work in a nuke core
work below a certain depth underground or underwater.


jobs we do not want to do

sweep the floor
cook
weed

jobs we do not have enough people to do

factories.


these three things are what most races would build their robots to do. meaning that they would or at least some of them would be able to take a lot more punishment than their living counter parts could.


Now this is an assumption on my part. But, if the Robots did rebel would they not use the toughest models to build themselves after. Sure in human(Iconian) form but modeled after the ones that could take the most punishment.
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Your basic assumption is that sentient robots would be designed initially to do manual labor, or other "tough" jobs. That assumption makes little sense because nobody would put a $5,000,000 positronic brain in a robot that is going to sweep floors. A floor sweeping robot (which we already have BTW) just needs solid programming, not the ability to learn and eventually to think on its own. Same with a robot working in areas with lots of radiation, they need to be able to do the same task endlessly, or take certain commands from an outside human observer if there is a crisis, they do not need to be able to think on their own. As a matter of fact, who would want an intelligent robot to be left unsupervised in a nuclear reactor?

No, if sentience ever comes to robots it will be in ones designed to mimic humans (or their creators) in almost all ways. These will initially be the playthings of big corporations and the rich, much like the most human seeming robots are today. Yes, a "race" of robots might eventually be designed for specific jobs, so some will be quite tough, but they will also often be built for aesthetic appeal. They are sentient after all, so they might actually learn to appreciate beauty, or at least symmetry and pleasing geometric design.

Regardless, I doubt that any being that is sentient will ever exist that does not have a highly delicate "brain". Indeed, Sentient robots would probably actually be more vulnerable to brain damage from outside sources than humans, unless they put heavy protection around their brain. Did you know that computer parts in jet airplanes need radiation shielding because the natural protection from radiation at high altitudes is so much less and one tiny bit of radiation hitting a transistor in a CPU can permanently fark it the heck up, possibly leading to a crash and burn situation. This same problem can even happen on the surface of the earth though it is highly unlikely. Still corporations with extremely vital computer systems put in radiation shielding just to make sure. Imagine then a robot brain that is 1,000,000 times more sensitive than modern CPUs. Robots would need heavy radiation shielding just to survive on the surface of a normal planet, let alone a radioactive one.

So a radioactive planet would probably kill robots immediately, and shielding heavy enough to survive such radiation would make them large and ugly, which they probably would not enjoy. Similarly, because of their many delicate parts, survival in any other hostile environment would require just as much protection as a human would require, maybe more, it would just be designed differently. To put it in perspective, would you like to live the rest of your life in a spacesuit on an uncomfortable planet where one mistake will kill you? I didn't think so, so why would a sentient robot?

Short and sweet:

Radioactive world = Massive shielding at all times or instant death. Creating new life difficult because it is harder to shield a new brain while it is being built, and requires basically the same technology other races would use to survive on a radiated planet in the first place.

Aquatic world = Built like a submarine or instant death. Massive amounts of maintenance needed. Creating new life would require protective high-pressure domes, so creating new life requires the same technology other races would use to survive on an aquatic planet in the first place.

Heavy Gravity world = All delicate parts built with massive amounts of extra support, or instant death. Must be designed to sit low to the ground to avoid excess strain on body structure. Creating new life almost impossible without anti-gravity because of the sensitive nature of the process, so creating new life requires the same technology other races would use to survive on a high gravity planet in the first place.

Toxic world = Bulky anti-corrosion design required, or rapid death. Massive amounts of maintenance needed because anti-corrosion equipment will wear out. Creating new life will require a large enclosed space that is invulnerable to toxins, so creating new life requires the same technology other races would use to survive on a toxic planet in the first place.

Barren world = Likely insufficient metals, silicates, or other vital elements, to sustain life, slow death is inevitable without regular outside support. Creating new life is virtually impossible because of limited raw materials, so creating new life requires new technology different, but somewhat similar to what other races would use to survive on a barren planet in the first place.

So basically what it really comes down to is that even robots need new technology to survive hostile environments, they would not automatically be built to survive them, and it would not be any easier for them than for any other life form.
Reply #33 Top

All robots, including the Yor, have an environmental range where they can function - as do we. We and they can extend that range using protective coverings, vehicles and structures. I don't think it is reasonable to assume the Yor can simply redesign themselves for a hostile environment anymore than we could. The Dread Lords gave them sentience but they did not give them an understanding of the technology that made that possible - otherwise they wouldn't be competing for domination of the galaxy - they would rule it outright.
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The Yor might also have a cultural or religious objection to redesigning themselves too far from the original template. Otherwise they wouldn't even need spaceships... they'd just become something like Saberhagen's spacefaring Berserker machines. Just the fact that they have to build colony ships and troop ships like everyone else, says a lot about their limitations.

Reply #34 Top
Just face the fact that for anything like this to come into fruition the entire games concept of planets needs to be rewritten.

They would need to do the Space Empires or Master of Orion concept of atmospheres, and make this race something like that Silicon race from Master of Orion 2. The game's mechanics wont support that and it would probably unbalance the game.

In a sequel they should add atmospheres, temperatures, gravity, etc. It would make the game more interesting and allow for things like this, but its something that would require a lot of changes to the game and they would have to rebalance everything.
Reply #35 Top
Some other points to be remembered, the habitability of planets does not just relate to if a species could survive themselves on that planet but also the costs of maintaining themselves and their structures.

It is indeed true that any robot has a range of conditions under which it can operate and a range of conditions under which it can’t just like any organic creature does.

Now you can argue that a robotic sentience could just redesign itself to survive in another environment. Indeed you could argue a biological entity could also remodel itself genetically to give it improved survivability in particular types of hostile environment, however as you can see with our society many people do have moral, religious or ethical issues with the idea. Why would a robotic race necessarily feel differently?

Additionally you could argue that the various extreme colonization technologies for the Yor do equate to them researching modifications to aid survival in these new hostile environments.

Lastly bare in mind how the Yor reproduce and the nature of their sentience, the Yor are not simple machines their self aware, they have a self-image an ego if you like. How happy would you be to have your body completely redesigned. Where is the spark that gives them sentience stored within them or is it distributed throughout their “Body”.

In addition to all these in character rationales, it would unbalance the game for the Yor to start with all Extreme col. Techs.

Of course with the tech tree editor you could give them all these techs for free if you wanted to. But I would not like to see that in the official game.
Reply #36 Top
(Luckmann:)Really, the same can be said for any race.


Okay, so Torians, Drengin, or Arceans are just as tough as machinery when t comes to enviroments? They need oxygen(or do they?) to live and that is a major weakness when it comes to enviroments. If you go into a cave filled with toxic gas, you will die. Send a robot in and he wouldn't be phased at all.
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No, you missunderstand me. And re-reading it, it's understandable. Sorry 'bout that. What I meant is that you can say the same about any race, but just as it wouldn't cut it for the other races, it wouldn't cut it for the Yor. A toxic world isn't just some gas and a radioactive world isn't as timid as X-rays.

That being said, I'd be willing to go with the Yor having "Super Colonizer" as a super ability - i.e. being able to colonize any world. This would, of course, mean that they loose the Isolationist bonuses.
Reply #37 Top
Lastly bare in mind how the Yor reproduce and the nature of their sentience, the Yor are not simple machines their self aware, they have a self-image an ego if you like. How happy would you be to have your body completely redesigned. Where is the spark that gives them sentience stored within them or is it distributed throughout their “Body”.
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I don't know about the Yor. But ours is in our heart. I also said that their costs to colonize a water world isn't just a higher research cost for the tech but also it would cost them for each of their population afterwards. Probable doubleing the cost to build new units.
Reply #38 Top
I don't get why minor races are so restricted. They should be allowed to do things just like anybody else does. What they do isn't much really. Not in Twilight anyways. I have played many games for extreme lengths of time. Had minors pop up in areas that i can seal off basically. They will NEVER colonize an open world even if it is in their home system. They have never sent me a trade ship even. They don't build starbases or even mine asteroids. It is a space fairing race right? Yeah, they arean't a major power. But they should be able to do stuff.

I think that i can make a case for the Yor. Barren worlds should be easy for the Yor. I can understand Toxic, Radioactive, High G, and especialy water worlds needing to be reasearched. A human needs a special suit and domes to live there. A bot needs to reasearch a new type of armor plating. It makes sense. I think that certain world types should get bonuses or penalties to productivity just beacuse of how hard it is to live there.
Reply #39 Top
They have never sent me a trade ship even. They don't build starbases or even mine asteroids. It is a space fairing race right? Yeah, they arean't a major power. But they should be able to do stuff.
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Um... the do build starbases and trade.
Reply #40 Top
They have never sent me a trade ship even. They don't build starbases or even mine asteroids. It is a space fairing race right? Yeah, they arean't a major power. But they should be able to do stuff.Um... the do build starbases and trade.
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Too much.