Suggestions for GC3

Some wild some wacky, what do you think?

First lets me start by saying I’m a big fan of GC2 an all it’s expansions and will doubtless be playing them for years to come, particularly with the TA expansion and the editors that come with it.

So anyway a few suggestions for GC3, it’s more of a wish list actually but still I thought I’d put it out there you never know Stardoc might even like some of these ideas. Anyway here goes;

1.) Keep the hard point ship design system but enhance it in the following ways;

Add the ability to scale parts in just the X, Y, or Z direction rather than just uniformly, this would allow them to be used in more different ways.

Add the ability to make lights blink on and off.

2.) Buildings, allow users to design the buildings for their race using a Hard point system just like ships accept the design is purely cosmetic. A default for each building should be pre-designed so that those who don’t want to bother customising it won’t have to. The editor should be an option on the tech screen after the research that leads to the building is complete.

3.) Planets, Racial Norms and Terraforming Technology. I think a radical over hall would be good here not that the current system doesn’t work but I really liked Moo3’s system here (although the game itself was dire).

So give each Planet the following statistics all are averages for the planet; Temperature, Gravity, Radioactivity, Humidity, Atmosphere.

Temperature, Gravity, Radioactivity and Humidity should all be simple scales and Atmosphere would be one of two or three types. E.g. Oxygen, Methane, None, etc.

The Planet should also have a rating for biosphere e.g. how developed the native biosphere is e.g. a Barren planet effectively has no native biosphere, this could be a simple scale of 0 – 10, 0 = Barren, 10 = a Lush jungle world.

A Planet would also consist of land and ocean squares, the number of ocean and land squares decided by the humidity.

Each race would have normal ranges and wider extreme ranges for; Temperature, Gravity, Radioactivity, Humidity. If any of those variables on a planet are outside the normal range then for each one outside the normal range building maintenance costs should increase and population growth and morale decrease. If any of the variables is outside the extreme range of a race they can only build an outpost and various terra forming devices on the planet until they all fall within the limits at which point the outpost becomes a colony. If the planet does not have the races preferred atmosphere they likewise cannot build a colony.

Terraforming; There should be a range of technologies and buildings for terraforming some will need to be kept permanently while others work over several turns but may later by destroyed as their effect is self sustaining. E.g.

Planetary Gravity Modulator – One per planet must be kept or the planet reverts, sets the planetary gravity level to the normal range for the species that builds it.

Atmospheric Adjustment Centre; Changes the atmosphere of a planet to the normal for the species that builds it over a number of turns, self sustaining so may later be destroyed, (could be different types depending on the original atmosphere so more than one technology).

Planetary Radiation shield – reduces the radiation level on a planet by a set amount, must be maintained.

Planetary Humidifier – increases Humidity on a planet a set amount, (should also be a dehumidified) Note this may lead to land square becoming see squares and improvements on them may vary.

Temperature Regulation centres; will adjust the temperature a set amount and come in hotter and colder varieties. In any case you get the picture.

Biospheres;- The food web or organisms to support our population on a planet. Changing the atmosphere should set the biosphere back to 0 on a planet. Biosphere should affect maximum population and population growth the higher the better. There should be Biosphere seeding buildings to increase biosphere rating over time.

Obviously this all makes planets a lot more complex to manage but would add richness and depth to the races to the tech tree and to the game in general. Note most carbon based life will have overlapping temperature, radioactivity and humidity requirements. Special tech should be needed to invade worlds outside your extreme zone and invasions should have a penalty for the invader if the planet is in the extreme range.

4.) Custom races, tech screen, invasions, etc

Currently you seldom see your race in action and only see others in the diplomacy screen. What would be nice is to have a scientist of your race present tech advances, to have governors actually talk to you and to be able to see your race in action during invasions.

I understand the number of movies you would need using the current system would be massive. It would also be nice if custom races could be unique and still be used in the same way and with the current system that is not possible.

So what I propose and this is one of my costlier suggestions is a spore like race design editor. This would allow you to model a standard member of your race, a scientist, a soldier and a spy complete with suitable clothes, you could revisit these models later on.

The system then generates some fixed animation sequences for these characters (all the standard races have predefined ones that can be edited at any time. As well as various possible soldier animations.

Some technologies could unlock new parts so you could actually make your troops seem like they where wearing power armour when you get it, change their weapons, etc. Unlike spore the design of your people does not affect their abilities the picks still apply. But for soldiers the weapon you give then and any power armour or cybernetic bits do, and the cost per thousand of your soldier would vary accordingly.

It would be up to the player to decide how a standard set of invasion/Defense troops was equipped but he could change these before building an invasion task force. A similar system to the ship system could be used to design mechanised infantry and atmospheric air support. This would mean a player doesn’t have to use their best troops and equipment. Also the amount of room needed on transports would vary. A player could also vary this for a planetary defence force on a particular planet. You could have different squads with varying weapons.

Troops would have the following characteristics;

Damage(Beam, Melee, Mass Driver, missile), Toughness (against each damage category), Hitpoints, Accuracy, Morale, damage area (Applies only to missiles), evasion.

Damage = How much damage a troop does to everything in the damage area of it’s attack (or target if not a missile) in it’s particular category.

Toughness = How much damage of that type the target can absorb without taking damage in a turn.

Hitpoints = how much damage can be taken before death or destruction if a tank.

Accuracy = Used along with the targets evasion to determine a hit or miss.

Damage Area = the area of the explosion for a missile.

An invasion itself would play out with a map showing enemy troop disposition on the planet. You would then decide which troops and squads to send to which areas based on your knowledge of troop enemy troop placement, if you are being invaded you decide where to set up your defences.

Then the battle for each sector plays out, you have the option to withdraw why a battle is in progress. What you see for each sector is a small but representative part of the battle taking place e.g. each troop represents a thousand, etc. based on the stats the battle plays out before you with the camera tracking it in a cinematic way using your troops, tanks, etc and generated animations to show a real tine skirmish in the battle.

If the enemy is destroyed or forced to flee you win the sector. Troop numbers are adjusted on each side for casualties. Once all current sector battles have played out that’s the combat over for that turn if all enemy troops are destroyed then the planet now belongs to you otherwise it’s contested and adds nothing to your empire be you defender or attacker.

Next turn you can redistribute your forces anywhere if the attacker or move them one sector if you’re the defender. And so on until someone wins the planet.

Troops can destroy structures in sectors they have captured and some weapons may damage structures anyway.

5.) replace invasion tactics with special modules for support tanks, etc and ships in orbit.

Well enough suggestions from me for now.

8,996 views 12 replies
Reply #1 Top
Some good stuff suggested.
Reply #2 Top
Thanks, I may add a few more ideas next week if I get some spare time.
Reply #3 Top
My suggestion: Build your game in a way that adding Hotseat Multiplayer isn´t too time-consuming to feasibly do.
Reply #4 Top
I thought I read that there will be no GalCiv III for a very very long time. The new expansion is suppose to last us years.
Reply #5 Top
I think it would be cool to be able to capture starbases and use them instead of having to destroy them.
Reply #6 Top


Not to be rude, but it does sound like you want to take Masters of Orion 3... pull out just about everything from that, and take the GC2 AI and put it all in a shaker, and hope the ultimate space civ classic comes out!

Not that I am against the idea, but I also see the problems... like you mentioned MOO3 was a nice but dire game mainly due to posibility of... infinite micromanagdement and shitty AI.

I would rather envision that GC3 takes on from GC2 in much of the core content, since it is simple and excellent, and I would rather see that the developers build on top of that rather then go about trying to create a new game from scratch.

The most vital things that I hope to see in GC3 (Or any future expansion packs for that matter)

About the general map:
Move away from the grid system, it works well for civilization games, but it does not give the right feel for a space civillization game. Instead make it so that you can move ships to any location their movement and range allow, this would allow for much better grand scale strategy, and make space seem more spacelike. I would also imagaine that it would make influence and the borders as they are now easier to understand.

As for the planets:
The planet system should remain as it is now, but give every planet a number from 0 to how high it is actually posible to go. Here 0 would indicate that there are exteme conditions present so you need the specialized techs to colonize them. But for the others it would open up the door for building military listening posts, mineing colonies etc. Stuff that would be able to benefit strategy and add a new, not too complicated layer to the game.

As for the solar system:
Make the systems look like real solar systems! For simplicity just make it so that on the main map you can only see the stars, but with the option to open up a seperate window to see all planets present in the system. Or go for a system where it is posible to zoom in a see the planets, in a way like the moons work now.

Population model:
The current taxpayer one is just unrealistic, even though we know not everyone on Earth is paying taxes, we still got a good estimate as of the Total population. Instead have a Max population / Current population.

Soldiers:
While I dont think it is required to have tanks and airplanes etc etc. Then at least have a seperate soldider part of the population, that can be used for offense and defence.

Ground combat and planetary bombardment:
Have both invasion and defence tactics, and make sure that ground combat is expensive, and takes time! Of course there would also need to be a better system for defensive structures and systems, and some new toys for the attacking party in the form of death from high above.

Spacestations:
These need a major overhaul. First off they should be posible to build around planets, as well as in deep space. For military purposes, then they should pack more of a punch. The military support system should be made more plausible (Anyone ever wondered how they managde to shot several parsec with some of their support weapons?) but in order to do this the entire ship structure needs revision sadly.

Ships:
Well here I think it would be nice if the design actually mattered, so that when you fight then you if you dont have guns that can shoot at all angles, then you are at a disadvantage. This leads up to a more interactive ship to ship combat, but it can also be done just with AI control. In either case there would actually be some point in the show fleet vs fleet combat other then "Uhhh look at my evil design".

Technology and Races
I guess this is a tricky one, but I like the idea of seperate tech trees so that should stay. Further more I would like to see more diverse races, I miss the crystal guys from MOO hehe, and other types of aliens should also be posible to implement.

Goverment:
Make the penalty of loseing the senate more severe... for example let the AI run your empire until the next election! Also make the happiness system a little bit more advanced, since it is kinda lame that everything is controlled effectively by the tax. There should be general unrest as well, so that you need to maintain a strong presence by either troops or propaganda etc etc.. or your worlds will declare independence. This would create a universe that is more alive, and would make it harder to wage war unless you are a bit ruthless about it, since people close to the war will suffer more, and hence try to defect more.

That should about cover the very elmentary basics.






Reply #7 Top
Aiyen,

No the only thing from Moo3 I was looking to take was some of the planet based stuff because frankley I thought the habitation rings where a good idea but could have been done better.

What I don't think is that GC3 should be an exact clone of GC2, or what's the point?

Actually I think Moo3 failed because of poor AI and very poor reward and visulization. e.g. Space combat was utterly dire and graphicly the game was very poor. Actually micromanagement wasn't the problem, the problem was you had to choose between micro and macromanagement and if you used the later you really had little to do but press the turn button.

What I would like to do is put Ascendency, Moo3, GC2, and spore into a Blender mix them up and hopefully get the ultimate customisable space stratergy game.

So to address your ideas;

The map - I don't really see this as any sort of priority, it's fine to make it more truley 3D but it's a map e.g. a representation not the real territory.

Solar systems - here you are borrowing from Moo3, there's nothing wrong with it but for me it doesn't make much difference, because of the scale of stars and different size planets and distances involved it would still only be a not to scale inaccurate representation.

Planets - as you know I disagree I think this is an area they could add a lot of depth to the game on but fair enough we agree to differ.

Population Model - I think there are all sorts of improvements that could be made here. With the morale, and economics but that would be a discussion in itself.

Soldiers - As you know I would like this to go further but I agree the planetary population and defence force should be seperate. My main concern is I would also like to see my soldiers and the new battle technology I research in action and have control of how much effort to put into defending a planet.

Space stations - I pretty much agree.

ships - I Think the ship design system is pretty good but of course there is always room for improvement and I like your ideas - again similar to Moo3.

Races and Technology - I agree but would like to go further as you know.

Government - I think having the AI run your empire would not be much fun, (see Moo3) though I do agree their should be a more complex government model.



Reply #8 Top
econundrum1,

I argree pretty much with your reasoning of what was really bad about MOO3. But this aint about this game, and while we both seem to take alot from it then let us try to keep it more clean!

Actually one comment about the ship one.. I had forgot that it was the same in MOO3... I was drawing from another small space civ game I had a few years back but which I lost sadly. Anyway, now that we have the major aspects down I will just try ot comment a bit more on those and come with a few more points.

Map: This is not so much for the sake of 3D I still would like a 2D map, since I think that a 3D map would be very though to implement in a nice way if you are to have ships in between stars... afterall it only worked in MOO3 because of the whole (lame) wormhole thing. (Yes I know you could still fly between systems... but I only ever did that once or twice when the distance was only about 10 turns in between) The Main reason for this is that I think it would make the for more fluent gameplay. For example sensors have a radius, which is not depicted as accurately if you use a grid, there will be egdes where you should be able to see half of the square. This method would eliminate that sort of problems entirely.

Solar systems: I was having M003 in mind yes, but I recall other games also using this way of doing it. I am inclined to argree that when it comes down to it, I would not really mind which system is used either. In the end it is how the planets are categorized that counts. Guess I just would like to see the planets rotate about their sun in some fashion at the very least, so that it would matter which side you attack from!

Planets: In the rough sense I belive we have a similar system in mind, like I said I would like a more diverse amount of planets to pick from. I just think it would be enough to have the following

Type: Rock, Gas

Dominant enviroment: Toxic, barran, ocean (water dominated), vulcanic, plains (ground dominated), diverse (a combination of 2 or more). I guess we could figure out more types but you get the idea.

Gravity: I think this is a vital parameter to leave alone, since it should have an impact on ground combat and how nice a quality planet it is for your race.

Special artifacts: Sort of like the bonus tiles now except giving it a bit more history, for example a 700% research bonus would be an ancient civillization of nanobots that are guardians of an lab. And a 300% manufactureing bonus could be special minerals, or an old spacedock... the posiblities are endless, but you get the point.

Population model: Yeah but for simplicity just the division of civilian and soldier would be an excellent start.

Soldiers: My freind and me talked about this the other night, and I came with the jest that why dont Stardock by the rights for supreme commander, and then make it the tactical ground combat addon. That would create the right feel for war on that scale... but proberly also make ground combat take.... well a very long time! The main reason why I dont see any need for actually being able to control tanks and the like (I assume that is what you mean here so correct me if I am wrong) is that it does not really add anything but forcing us to wait since this would require the writing of a more complex RTS AI in order to make the battles remotely interresting.
Here I think about games like Imperium galactica... I got tired of the ground battles eventually since they where just repetitive, and took unnessary time. Of course this a personal opinion, there might be some who loved them!
Instead I think the current model where you see the primary statistics of the battle as well as a little movie or cartoon, that would give the impression of what is going on. So different size of forces on the screen, and if you use a mass driver strategy then there will come stones raining down before the main ground force lands etc etc.
The problem here is then of course the amount of time required to make all of these animations!

Ships: Hmm I dont got anything new to add here just now, perhaps you could come with a few suggestions!

Space stations: Same

Races and technology: Well if we expand the amount of diversity of the planets, why not also the amount of races... bring back in the crystalline and gas like races, and the deadly white mice! What do you mean by going further here?

Goverment: I gave this one a bit more thought. If the current model for borders was expanded into something you could trade more easily... so you could trade territory in diplomacy then it would open up for some interresting diplomacy. So if you want to stop a war, but dont want to give up loads of techs, then just give up some space. If a planet happen to be in what you give away if will just start to suffer penalties to trade and economics for being cut off.
As for the goverment then in order to make that more interresting, then I dropped the AI take full control idea because frankly it is lame. Instead then if lets say the pacifics win, you will be unable to start new wars, and be forced to try to commence peace talks on a more regular basis. If the War party takes control... yeah well you guess that. If it is the technologist.. then money goes into research.
In short, the AI get control of the Empire sliders (Depending on which party wins) and production capabilities, so if the populists win they will start to construct more things towards expanding the popularity of your empire... for example convert research labs into embassies etc. You will still be in charge of what to research and how to move your ships however, but some domestic privilliges you will losse control of.

Ok that should be enough for now, let me know what you think about these ideas!

and btw, sorry for bad grammar and the odd type error here and there!









Reply #9 Top
Ok I see your point about the Map, it's not a priority to me but it would be nice yes. generally I agree with most of what you say but would like to see planets done a little differently. On the point of ground combat I'm only suggesting strategic control between turns not control of individual soliders tanks,etc. That would just play out like a movie but dynamicly generated. This would also mean that conquering a planet could not be done in a month as now which is just unrealistic it should take several turns.
Reply #10 Top
As far as the morale/happiness/taxation/government thing...

I've been considering a solution of sorts to this, though it doesn't really make sense from a realistic point of view: Just hold elections every week.

If that's too "off" then maybe you could keep the election at the 25/26 week mark, and have that one take away the economic bonus if you lose it; in addition to the normal penalties.

While I agree that having average morale over time determine elections would be a better way, I really think it adds too much micromanagement. If you always have to keep your citizens at a minimum standard of happiness, then the micromanagement aspect is somewhat removed, though some people (like me, for instance) might still want to tweak it each turn to make sure they're getting the maximum amount of cash they can from their populace.

And really the only reason I'm throwing that idea out in this thread instead of another is because even if people like it (which something tells me many won't like not being able to run at 21% approval anymore), I don't expect something that is, to be honest, that much of a change to make it into GCII.

Sorry to get a little offtopic.
Reply #11 Top
What I would like to see is a little more thought out ship upgrade paths.

If you stay with a techonology say phasors I think should should be able to say upgrade your ship at a military starbase or a planet with a starport to the next generation of phasors by having the planet work on it instead of the buy it.

upgrading from say plasma II to antimatter torp should be very very expensive if nigh impossible. the magazine for the missles the feeding mechinism you get my point.

Upgrades to defenses.

upgrading missle defenses should be the easiest there mostly on the outside of the ship and require less modification to the internal guts of the ship.

Upgrading Sheilds this should be slighly harder the power requirements to run them an number of sheild generators can be a problem.

Armor this should be tht toughest to upgrade. The space frame of the ship would have to be strengthend to hold the armor in place during manuvers and such (it would be very embarresing to make a manuvoer that causes some ges and say your aft bulk head buckles and the piece of armor protecting you captains quarters flys off.

upgrading sensors should not be a big problem.

Life support I dont know because that messing with the plumbing, HVAC system and gravity feild. That should be VERY expensive. Just go look at the plans of a sky scraper or a submarine.

Duh
Reply #12 Top
Some of these ideas are ok, but some are truly horrible (going back to the old GC1 style star systems? letting the AI take over your empire!?).