Constructor Micromanagement Revisited

from GalCiv2 Forums
I realize this subject comes up with some regularity on these boards, but according to my search, the last similar thread was in July. Being the big GalCiv advocate that I am, I feel like it's my duty to state once again, for the record, that the current starbase construction system brings a lot of headaches to a lot of people.

I have to confess that organizing vast fleets of construction ships to streamline my empire's economy is neither fun nor believable. When you have starbases with upwards of 20 or 30 modules, that is a lot of time spent figuring out how many constructors you need at what star bases for what modules, not to mention a lot of wasted motion moving 3 or 4 fleets from A to B only to invariably discover that you allocated more constructors than you needed and now you need to find somewhere else to put them.

It seems like the most common solution to the constructor issue is to simply not build starbases. However, one of the more enjoyable aspects of GalCiv for me is streamlining my empire for maximum efficiency -- so I use a lot of econ starbases and a lot of military starbases to generate more mobility. There's no reason I should have to give that up because the star base construction system is poorly implemented.

There are a lot of ways to manage your hundreds (if not thousands) of constructors that you will build during the course of a game. The most efficient method I have come up with is to use fleet rally points to collect them all, and then send them out to do their job once four or five of them group together. Even though this takes a lot of the workload off my shoulders, I still find there are a few problems with it. First, it's not a very precise system -- so I either end up with too many or too few construction units when they arrive at their destination, afterwhich I have to take time to reallocate them. Second, I am missing out on the returns from those units while they sit there idling in space waiting for them to collect because I simply don't have the patience to individually launch and move them as they are built, nor does any human being. Third, almost the entire time that I am waiting for my turn to complete it's cycle is spent watching little construction boats scuttle across my empire, which is great, but also very time consuming. I would much rather be playing than watching constructors fulfill their flight plan. Fourth, and this is somewhat minor, but it seems to diminish the realism and credibility of the game. My warship navy shouldn't be outnumbered by my construction fleet, and yet it frequently is. Not to mention, the idea of "disposable" construction ships is sort of silly. Is the entire vessel and crew really going to be consumed in the construction process? Is that why the empire builds hundreds and hundreds of such ships per year? I realize that it's merely a way of abstracting the logistics of construction in a space empire, but I don't think it's very functional or very fun, and there's no reason I should miss out on all the rewards of star bases simply because the system is too much of a pain in the ass.

There are a multitude of suggestions as to how streamline the starbase system, but I would be happy just to be able to put more than one construction module on a ship. I don't think that's the definitive solution to star base construction, but it would at least ease some of the head ache and keep me playing until something truly revolutionary was introduced.

Most people probably don't feel as strongly about constructor micromanagement as I do, but I can honestly say that everytime I have put the game down for a period of time, it was owing to the pain in the ass of managing constructor fleets. The solution to all my colonies that are not major manufacturing centers is to have them build constructors so that those few military production points aren't wasted on nothing every turn. That adds up to a helluva lot of constructors by the time the game is over, and that's not a whole lot of fun to manage.
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Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The other thread on this I think got a few good ideas out in the open.

1) Allow multiple constructor modules. (probably force you to use them all at once)
2) Get rid of offense/defense modules. (make them upgrade without constructor)
3) Give better visual that a base needs more development. (for resource bases, show a number or something that lets you know you need more constructors to get full bonus)
4) Give some sort of starbase summary page, that let you easily find the starbases that need work.
5) Make offense/defense stronger...

Taken all together, I think those would go a long way to dealing with the need to have 100's of constructors...


Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
In my humble opinion,

1. I don't know how I feel about multiple constructor modules. I think it would be gimp (or too easy) to build a huge ship with 50 constructor modules and have a mega military starbase in 1 turn. Micro manageing the constructors is boring I agree. But if you setup your rally points correctly its not too bad and a necessary evil to not make it fast or too easy.

2. Not sure what your talking about here. Why would you just be able to upgrade all offense and defense modules without a constructor?

3. This is available in TA but it only tells you modules and not resource module available. That would be nice.

4. That may be nice although I am not sure if I would use it.

5. I kind of agree. But I don't want starbases to be indestructable. I think you should need a fleet guarding it if its that important. However, I do think if want to spend huge amounts of money you really should be able to research a technology that allows you to upgrade like 5 hit points for every constructer you send to it. So in reallity you could have an indestructible starbase with 200 constructers (1000hp added). Something like that I would totally agree on and you could make use on all your contructers instead of having to rally them somewhere else to upgrade a starbase.
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Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Even better make the HP bonus contigent on a branch in research. I.E. Starbase module HP bonus level 1 2hp, level 2 4hp, level 5 10hp. At level 5 every constructor can 10 hp to a starbase.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

In my humble opinion,

1. I don't know how I feel about multiple constructor modules. I think it would be gimp (or too easy) to build a huge ship with 50 constructor modules and have a mega military starbase in 1 turn.too easy.
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You can do that now, with multiple ships, it's just an administrative PitA.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Why not have one constructor that created the starbase. Then build a freighter to instead of trade with the starbase it upgrades it. then returns back to the home world (as a mini freighter - just like trading mini's) it spends a week loading new modules and returns to the starbase to upgrade it ad infinitum. that way once it's setup you don;t need to worry about it. And also you choose your upgrade module when it gets to the home world.



Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Why not make it so a constructor initilises construction of a starbase, then the player can select modules to build. Once some modules are chosen, the constructor acts like a freighter and brings materials from the chosen planet (proximity and production have an effect on how long it takes to build the modules as the constructor has to travel further).

Makes it less of a pain to build and upgrade starbases, and constructors still have an important role. :)
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I also had thought about having constructors be like frieghters. You establish a "route" with a contructor to whereever you wish it to go and then it ferries back and forth depending on its speed and can add modules over and over. Perhaps the planet would still have to use its military spending to produce the raw materials needed for the constructor ferry, so you would have to choose whether or not you want that starport tied up making modules or other ships. That would rock...
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I really like the idea of doing a freighter-like upgrade system, as long as I have the option to let the mini-freighter sit at the Starbase during either war or when I feel the base is upgraded enough.

This is one of the better suggestions on the idea I've seen, especially if one can put more engines on it to have a base constructed faster (quicker movement to the originating world.)
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I've found that putting planetary rally points directly on a starbase works pretty well. Once I get a "no more modules are available" message, I can just move the rally, automatically sending the constructors still in transit to the next starbase. I suppose that would waste a little time if the next starbase I wanted was on the other end of the galaxy, but I generally have a rally point for each border of my empire.
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

In my humble opinion,

1. I don't know how I feel about multiple constructor modules. I think it would be gimp (or too easy) to build a huge ship with 50 constructor modules and have a mega military starbase in 1 turn.too easy.


You can do that now, with multiple ships, it's just an administrative PitA.
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Meaning you need 50 colonies or 50 turns, and then you have to get them there to make 50 starbase modules. If you had a military giant you could make 1 ship in 1 turn with that many modules on it. Thats too easy or gimp in my opinion.
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Why not make it so a constructor initilises construction of a starbase, then the player can select modules to build. Once some modules are chosen, the constructor acts like a freighter and brings materials from the chosen planet (proximity and production have an effect on how long it takes to build the modules as the constructor has to travel further).
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I think that's one of the better ideas for reducing the micro. It also means you're making your strategic decision for a starbase upgrade *once*, and not twice, the way it works now (i.e. you have to confirm what to build when the constructor arrives, when you already decided you needed an upgrade when you built a constructor and sent it there). Too many times, I forget what I was trying to do with a starbase when that confirmation screen pops up, several turns after I made a decision to upgrade it. This would front-load the decision process and then you wouldn't have to think about it again. Ideally you'd also be able to stack a list of upgrades that would kick in automatically.

The only thing I'm not sure about, is how you'd allocate production resources to do this. I suppose it would be possible to select a single planet (with a starbase) as a source for upgrades, but that removes some flexibility. I'll often have a factory planet sending constructors to several different starbases on a rotation basis, not locked to a single one.

I wonder if it would be possible to have yet another slider on the main economy control screen, where you could split out a portion of your military production and dedicate it to starbase upgrades? That would create a background production pool for building upgrades, so you wouldn't have to allocate specific planets to sending "freighter" type upgrades. It would just happen automatically in the background. In times of peace, you'd run that slider up to max for upgrading starbases, then shift it back to military production when you need to build warships. This might also be easier for the AI to handle, since it's a single setting instead of having to decide which planets to choose for starbase upgrade resources.
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Adjusting the starbase module system to mirror the trade route system sounds like the most promising solution I've heard yet -- not to mention it's not such a massive departure from the game mechanics that are already in place, meaning there is at least a faint hope that it might one day be implemented.

I'm going to try moving the rally points directly onto starbases in construction to see if that eases the pain a little bit.
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I really like the idea of doing a freighter-like upgrade system, as long as I have the option to let the mini-freighter sit at the Starbase during either war or when I feel the base is upgraded enough.
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What he said.
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'm going to try moving the rally points directly onto starbases in construction to see if that eases the pain a little bit.
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It works. I've used it myself.

It just has a little problem with launching constructors from planets that are right next to the starbase. You will have to order the constructor to leave the parsec that the starbase occupies before you could return it to assist in the construction.