Will there be a CD-version of the Ultimate-Bundle?

I am in your camp. I am very new to GalCiv2 only buying DL a few weeks ago and just love it!

Now I want to get the expansion bundle, but there is no option to receive a CD copy.

There's no plans for a combined CD package with TA for the forseeable future that I'm aware of.

Funny, I just mentioned this in another thread, but wasn't something mentioned about a "version 2" or "revision 2" in conjunction with a standalone installer?

Also is it possible to get an idea of the current and anticipated state of the different expansions and base game.

I'm sure you know where I'm coming from and my desire to have some non-SDC mechanism to install the game is a part of my question but the other part of my question relates to knowing when a particular expansion pack is "done".

For example I still play DL v1.4x because that was the last version of the game that had a standalone installer. However I do have the CD that I bought for DA. I'm not even sure what version of DA is on that CD but I assume that I could install that CD and get whatever DA version is there along with DL v1.5.

I was under the impression that was no advantage to playing DL v1.5 over DL v1.4x but I was recently told that DL v1.5 had fixed the problem that DL v1.4x has where the number of tiles on a planet differs from the listed PQ for planets that you didn't originally colonize yourself. Is this true? Does DL v1.5 fix any other known of issues of DL v1.4x?

Also what DA rev is on the CD that I currently have and what issues are exhibited by that rev? I do believe that you mentioned that it was playable but that some rev immediately after it had an issue that prohibited games being submitted to the metaverse.

What is the current rev of DA and what issues does it have? Are we done with DA revs yet? If not when will we be done with DA revs? If DA is soon to be done will there be any way to get a final CD either by itself or with DL or with TA or in any other combination?

If DA is soon to be complete and truly the only way to get it is via SDC, then could I install SDC, use it to install the finished DA and then uninstall SDC and assume that SDC will uninstall cleanly from my system?

As far as TA is concerned all of these same questions that I've asked about DA apply to TA as well.

I'm not trying to be critical and this may simply be an incorrect perception on my part but DA has basically been out for over a year now and has still never really been what I would consider "stable". As far as I can tell it seems like there have been revisions to DA on a monthly or at least bi-monthly basis and during some periods far more frequently than that.

I purchased DA over a year ago and at some point when it becomes stable I would like to play it. I'm in no rush having waited this long already but I would like to be apprised of when DA is "done".

I mentioned this in another thread somewhere or other but I really have no clue as to what version of the game is what. It also should be clear that I am relatively beta intolerant and I simply can't deal with trying to keep up with every new version of the game. I know there are various change logs for the different versions but it does seem that the only way to realistically know the differences is to follow every upgrade and fight through the inevitable issues that arise. I think what I'm asking for is some support from Stardock for the folks that are unwilling to do this.

There should be some relatively stable milestones of the game that are legitimate revs to play. I'm not saying you shouldn't fix issues or otherwise change or upgrade the game, but you should provide at least the occasional "island of stability" where folks like myself can weather the storm. You could do this by highlighting specific revs and documenting the hopefully limited issues that are present in that rev.

There will always be bugs in computer games inherently due to hardware, and software differences between each client. They also occur due to programming errors, or programming working in a way not intended. You can't demand a complete bug-free product on a platform where the product is being used on varies greatly. Greater the complexity that is in the design, greater the possibility for bugs, and even smaller the possibility of fixing all those bugs.

Sure you can make game like pong completely bug-free, but try it games which have multiple programmers, and multiple different features you eventually get to the point where you can notice, that you can't plug all those bugs as the plug creates a new one that you eventually have to fix.

The 2.0 update for DA and TA is still planned for after TA's release. Cari commented on IRC the other day that DL would probably get the Vista/nVidia-minimap slowdown fix but probably not a whole lot more. Last word was that we were likely going to do a standalone installer for the 2.0 update.

DL 1.5 just has a handful of things that got fixed along the way to making DA, and some rearranging of the file structure to make it compatible with DA. About the most significant things I can recall offhand were that surrender notifications weren't appearing in 1.4x, and some weapon FX files had to be fixed for those running non-US localizations.

The DA CD you have would have DA 1.5 on it. There were some crashes and PQ bugs that I recall.

The TA CDs for those who've ordered them will have the release version of TA, and most likely the installer will update DA and DL to the latest versions as of that point.


The thing you're really waiting for is 2.0, since that's likely to have a standalone installer. You can install DA/TA from the discs and update to 2.0 without needing to use SDC. Cari seemed to indicate that TA would continue to get updates for a while post-2.0, but I don't personally expect DA to go much further after that point.

As I tried to indicate I'm not asking for bug-free just some relative stability at some point along the path with perhaps a resonable understanding of what bugs exist at that point.


This sounds like a reasonable point for me to get most of the way caught up.

My plan would be to install the DA/DL disc that I have now with the idea that I would get DL v1.5 and the base DA v1.5. This would give me a minor tweak or two for DL and from what you said previously is a playable version of DA. You mention crashes but I assume these were of the random nature and the game could simply be continued from a previously saved game. I can deal with crashes as long as they aren't of the type that ruin the chance of ever submitting a game. I would hate to get 5 weeks into one of my gigantic galaxy games only to discover that every time I try to continue a game it crashes. Is it safe to assume that if a DA v1.5 game crashes it can still be continued from a previously saved version and would eventually be able to be submitted to the MV? There were no cheat flag issue with DA v1.5 were there?

So assuming that DA v1.5 crashes won't really stop you from being able to submit games and that there were no cheat flag or other MV submission issues, then I suppose a PQ bug isn't all that bad. What specifically was the PQ bug anyway?

You say "most likely" the installer (from the TA release CD) will update DA and DL to the latest versions at that point. Is there any way to find out for sure if this will be the case? Also I think any DL update at this point is doubtful to have an issue but is there any idea of specifically what version of DA that will be and what issues that version of DA will have and what issues that version of DA will fix? To ask this question in a different way what potential for change exists for the version of DA that will accompany the release of TA?

These questions are asking to predict the future which is of course impossible but there should be some idea about the state of DA at the time of the release of TA. I would think that by the time TA is actually released that DA would be pretty much done. In any case I wouldn't be insistent that the DA that accompanied the TA release be totally bug-free but only that it not have anything that would make it unplayable from my point of view which would be anything that prohibits game submission to the MV or anything that causes erroneous cheat flags. Assuming neither of these conditions exist then any issues the DA version that is on the TA release CD has would be tolerable and in any case should be resolved in version 2.0.

So the final question is how and when do I buy a TA release CD? Will there possibly be different CD's made at different times with potentially different DL, DA (or even different TA) versions? Or will there only be the one CD issued?

So it seems that there is a path to get where I want to go without SDC except for the issue of TA updates post 2.0. At least that pretty much gaurantees a final DL and a final DA and a hopefully playable TA all sans SDC. You agree? If so where and when do I put in my order?

As best I can recall there weren't any cheat flag or save corruption issues particularly affecting DA 1.50 offhand, but that was nearly a year ago now, so I'm sure you'll understand if it's a bit fuzzy. Likewise I don't recall the particulars of the PQ issues, but I'm sure you can find out easily enough by looking at the bug threads from around that time.

Any DA update included in the TA CD installer would almost certainly be 1.8g (the current on SDC) or some minor variant thereof. I believe there have been a couple of issues reported but I can't say as to whether they'll get addressed between now and TA's release prior to 2.0.

TA CDs will go out to those who've preordered with a CD option upon "release" (which in light of the way the beta is being handled, doesn't mean much besides when the CD's go out and the reviews come in). I don't believe we've done an updated run of DA discs, so it's a safe bet that the first run of TA will be it until such a time [if] a new retail package is created, or some other factor leads to it being done.

If you want to go for it, just pop over to the purchase page and do the same as you did for DA. Not a lot to it really.

From my point of view the $25 is worth it even if there is a chance I won't be quite getting what I want. But just to be clear it looks like that I need to get "Galactic Civilizations II: Twilight of the Arnor (Expansion)" and specify CD. I specifically can't get either the ultimate bundle or the expansion bundle since they specifically don't include a CD.

As far as 1.8g, I thought there was some autopilot path issue that was fixed with a version referenced in some thread posted by Cari that was later than what is currently on SDC but for all I know I'm thinking of 1.8f (or 1.8e, ...). Not sure if this is that autopilot has never seemed to be 100% reliable which has been around forever or if it's something else.

You do have to admit that the revs do seem to come fast and furious at times and keeping up with what rev does what is virtually impossible even for folks that are intimately involved with this on a daily basis. Can you really blame me for being confused about all of this?

Yeah. But then you already have DL and DA (even if you don't use it) so there wouldn't be a lot of point in your getting a bundle anyway.

I believe it was f that had issues with fleets losing their autopilots, and g fixed that.

Yep. Plus the bundle is more expensive.

But I *will* be using DA at least by the point I can get a non-SDC update via the TA CD to the latest (and assumedly by now pretty stable) DA version.

I've tried to explain my reluctance to move on to DA a couple of times, usually not successfully. There are five major reasons that I haven't, none of which by themselves would have deterred me, but the cumulative effect of all of them certainly has.

The first and foremost was that I still found DL to be fun. The second was that I still really hadn't "mastered" DL. The third is my dislike of being required to install SDC merely to update the game. The fourth is the engine nerfage in DA and the fifth was my perception of DA as a moving target.

At this point I still find DL fun however I do feel much closer to having "mastered" it. Getting the initial DA version via the DA CD and getting assumedly close to the final DA upgrade via the TA CD resolve both issue with SDC and my perception of DA as a moving target. That pretty much leaves the engine nerfage as the only remaining issue and I need to tackle DA if only to "prove" that speed is not the only reason I'm able to defeat the suicidal AI.

I assume I will probably have similar hesitancy going from DA to TA. Although I think the speed issue is now in the opposite favor, there will still probably be the issue of continuing chages to TA as well as not yet having mastered DA.

However this gives me just that much more to look forward to. I assume there are folks that are probably tired of DA and need TA to continue interest in the game. Heck, I'm not even really tired of DL yet and I still have learning all of the idiosyncrasies of DA to look forward to. By the time I'm actually ready to move on to TA Stardock will probably be releasing GalCiv III and no doubt TA will be stable by then. If I work this right I'll have fun and challenging games to play for the rest of my natural life.



OK. Cool.

A dream come true.