Boogly Boogly

Race Balancing Issues in TA

Race Balancing Issues in TA

So what is up with the relative balance of the new races as the game now stands? Before we get started, everyone should bear in mind that this is a single player game and that game settings can be tweaked to give every race a challenging game. I already read one rant where a fellow was flaming that his race was "ruined." With the new expansion still in beta, the author of one thread was already threatening to throw in the towel...sheesh! The devs are all over these threads, so...stay cool and make some valid points and, who knows? We might be able to hash a few things out that actually influence the final product as far as race balance goes.

I have only played three races in games all the way to completion. My games for TA beta have all tended to be larger galaxy sizes, minimum number of stars, max number of habitable planets. My findings thus far:

Humans- My overall impression is that this race is vastly overpowered, especially with intelligent use of customization points. Taking the federalist government, maxing out econonomics and research with custom points and putting the rest into morale have yielded results where the main dilema is not IF I am going to win, but HOW, and this all fairly early in the game. Typically as soon as I find a larger world (14 plus) and get it completely built up as my research capital, I have such a commanding lead that victory becomes a forgone conclusion. To top this off, I usually dont have to build anything I really want, because cash is all over the place. And this on crippling difficulty level. My opinion is that cash comes way too easily, and not just from the way I spend my points (which I have planned for), but rather, the cash comes way too easily from the tech tree. My opinion is, that with humans possessing so much innate versatility as to how victory is going to be achieved, the income improvements in the tech tree need to be slowed down. Of course, we cant take away banks or stock exchanges from humans, but we can and probably should, increase their research costs. Another possibility is removal (sorry monkeys) of beginning bonuses +10 morale and + 10 research. I don't want to bag on anyone's favorite race; Im just looking for some good gaming, and I think humans could stand to be powered down a bit.

Krynn- These folks have a very nice set up. Kudos to the dev teams for really bringing some unique individuality to this race. My overall impression, however, is that they are currently also vastly overpowered. Why? Again, cash all over the place. (And this with pacifist political party, not federalist). The moral bonuses and moral boosting tech make these folks so fanatical they dont blink an eye when you tax the bejesus out of them. The result is hordes of cash all over the place. Why? Conceptually, I am fairly certain that the cash is justified by the exorbitant costs of espionage. The problem, it seems to me, is that the excess of cash generated by all the moral boosts does not HAVE TO BE allocated to espionage, which buys this race all kinds of versatility to use the cash any way that it wants. One possible solution is to slightly nerf the morale bonuses and techs and in return reduce the espionage costs for this race, or find some other way to see that the excess of money is allocated to espionage automatically... And remember, before you flame, I like these guys too, I just found it way too easy to win (for me, a mediocre strategy gamer) on crippling difficulty level. I think the key to balancing these guys lies in examination and adjustment of the relationship between the cash (cult tithes) and espionage.

The Yor- The most problematic of all the races I have used extensively thus far because my overall impression is that these folks are vastly underpowered. Why? Lack of, you guessed it, cash. On crippling difficulty, I took Federalist political party,max economic custom points, max moral boost, and put any leftovers in social and military production. I micro managed a colony rush very efficiently (with a bit of luck...at no time going below 96 percent production capacity) and my economy still tanks 18-20 weeks after researching the final efficiency center upgrade. And this with doing EVERYTHING I can for my economy (harmony crystals, survey ships, nabbing morale and econ starbases, trade, etc. etc.). To balance things out, often half of my planets are charging stalks...which does help somewhat, but...my main point is...I have done EVERYTHING from start to finish to baby the economy and it STILL CRASHES. My only recourse or hope of victory is to trade for technology not native to the Yor, which makes it suicide to ever consider turning off the tech trading. The result is a race that, while very unique and well-concieved, has completely lost the versatility to splurge some customization points on anything that doesn't serve economy or do anything that doesn't directly serve economy the second the option becomes available. With no hope for the Yor of ever getting a cultural victory, not much more hope for achieving a diplimatic victory, and handicaps in research prolonging a technological victory, my opinion is that this race needs and deserves to have its war machine funded. The solution? Very simple- Add two or three more efficiency center upgrades to keep them going mid-late game.

Thats all I have for now. I have initial impressions on other races, some good and some not so good, but I feel it would be unfair to comment on them until I have played them more. I hope the Korx fared well, as they are one of my faves. I am VERY interested to know others thoughts/opinions on how the new races play so please post. Anyone play the Korx much yet?

Yors Truly,
Boogly
18,353 views 31 replies
Reply #26 Top
Hmmm...well, I revisited the Icons and 'tis true, without using alien tech, they are nearly impossible to keep afloat. I did manage to do so, precariously, by setting up trade and all the trade star bases that entails...built harmony crystals, etc. and, you might not like it, but I built one of just about every type of Iconian specialty/high maintenance building and then econ buildings or farms on almost every other square. The result? -- An agonizing debate with myself every turn whethor or not I was going to go ahead and fudge/trade for intersteller republic or stock exchanges etc.

They DO need something to help compensate for the insane maintenance costs. Kind of like the Yor, they seem dependant on alien technology for survival/viability; however, unlike the Yor, Iconian morale buildings also do have a maintenance cost.

The only strategy I can think of to try is build mass morale buildings (like the AI tries to do) and then tax the piss out of them. I debated this, and went econ buildings instead because the morale buildings also come with maintenance costs... I examined the tech tree at length, and found no solutions there, either.

The real rub is, that while you are trying everything in the tech tree to keep the fragile economy stabilized, the other races are running up their weapons techs so that when a showdown comes, the payoff for balancing your economy is to be way outgunned. I like the potential of the Icons; their regenerating ships and precursor technology are intriguing, but after replay I am going to have to revise my opinion and say that these folks need some economic help. The Interstellar Republic-Star Democracy government line would probably be the MINIMUM fix. And thats really not doing a whole lot for them because the majority of players will trade for those techs as it is; including the gov tech line would just give us non-tech traders the option of researching it ourselves.
Reply #27 Top

We're not really inclined to nerf races but rather make the others more powerful which we will as we go through and play them more.


Moreover, we need to find interesting and useful things for players to spend their money on.


End of quote


I agree. As it is now - If you have a lot of money, that goes towards Espionage/making Ships. Give us more Stardock, and we will forever rub your backs :)
Reply #28 Top
I have played the korath Clan twice on gigantic map with 9 other races on crippling for twilight of the arnor. My modifications included speed +2 and weapons +20 which made their weapons have +45 boost overall which seems a little overpowered with other modifications in their tech. I wiped everyone one out with ease. The Dark influence planetary improvement gives +200 influence. That is overpowered as well nearby planets of other races were flipping pretty fast.

I did get my butt kicked when I tried to play the Yor but the AI seems to do okay with them sometimes. Maybe I am not playing them right. But the original poster is probably right.

Krynn consulate does have a high influence advantage. Ease up on the planetary improvements on them for the influence.

One thing that disturbed me though playing with that race on a tiny map with spy bonuses chosen and mercantile goverment +20 espionage researched all techs (master spies) spent 10% income constantly on espionage and always had at least 2 spies on a particular race's territory was on advanced level of espionage half way through and I only stole 1 tech the entire game LOL! There is something wrong with that. I will not be investing any money in espionage again unless its to get rid of enemy spies.

Speed is overpowered. I don't understand why there is a first shot in combat but I do understand that because of that first shot combat thing you need lots of speed otherwise you never get the first shot. I haven't tried the Arceans yet but I am guessing I will own the AI with the 1st shot battle every time.

Thats my rant for now. Happy new year. I love this game.

Reply #29 Top
I always play with tech trade off, Boogly. It would help if the Iconians had just 1 further improvement to the Dream Complex(and please for the love of god, do not increase the maintenance costs!) that raised its effectiveness to 35%. It could be a late game tech, thats available after all the economy buildings. Also, Barter stations could offer 14% economic improvement that the Merchant Emporium offers now, and merchant emporiums could offer 24%. And then the Merchant Trade Complex could offer 55%(thus, its always ahead even if the player spams lower grade economic building).

Also, industrial replicator each stage should have 1 bc less in maintenance than they have currently, or 1mp more manufacturing to compensate.

This way, the Iconians could be viable if Tech Trading is off. Even then the balancing of the economy, and the military would be precarious. Also, the Organic Hitpoint module should offer a 10 hp increase, cause other races get that integrity grid that offers the same advantage as the organic armor module, for less space, and to my memory also for less cost!
Reply #31 Top
Apparently cause they don't know how the tech actually works(Basically they have a blueprint how to make those things, and their told what materials their supposed to use etc, but they don't know how in the world the machine works. I assume this is cause they served the PreCursors, thus they would provide all the knowledge needed.), the industrial replicator improvements are late on the tech tree cause of that, cause then they start making their own tech inspired by the PreCursor techs(though with creativity, i just rush for them after i get the economy improvements thanks to the recent creativity change).