@Soul Sole: you'll have to forgive Neilo, he's a bit slow and dense sometimes.

@Neilo: You're flipping his handle around backwords you fool, its "Soul Sole" not "Sole Soul"

And for the record, I liked McCain, that is he until he sold out to the very people he said he would never deal with (the Far Right and Rovian politicking).  That's when he lost my vote.  Say what you will about the Democrats and Obama, but at least they've been peddling the same stuff they've been peddling for years now. Can't say we aren't all walking into it with open eyes.

@Bilverseacher

In one reply!!!

One little reply, it's not like i.....uhmmmm...it's not like i....What was i saying?

Oh yeah...yea i will have fries with that thanks.

don't eat the small fries!

You may be throwing you vote for president away by not voting rep/dem, but there are plenty of other things to vote on today that you may agree upon.  So just because you may not like either candidate, what about state representative...congressmen...or in my case, should my state get 400mil to fix up it's water system (fixing treatment/pumping stations, cleaning up mine drainage into streams...etc).

As for my comments for the candidates...I dislike the attitudes or ineptitudes from both republican candidates, I however only dislike the vp candidate on the dem's side....man he's retarded.  But hey...i guess you gotta take what you can get to bring some sort of religion into the dem's side, even if his religion conflict's with the party/ticket partner's stances...

Now, who was the REAL socialist candidate for president...he was on Colbert Report last week?

Fluffie the Pink Bunnie experienced a bloody change in philosophy and has now become:

Kang, son of K'naiah

Once Kang has fulfilled his sworn oath to the Kzinti, he will be joining his glorious bretheren in the KIE.

All Tribbles and Ship's Counsellors will be immediately shot out of the closest airlock as soon as this transfer takes place.

Hehe, a name full of honor and history Snarkotamus!

Back to politics (sorry, it IS election day here), Karl Rove has predicted an Obama win, with his electoral map looking exactly similar to mine, except for North Carolina.  Does this mean I think like Karl Rove?  *shudder*

@Silver:  I used to like McCain too, when he was doing things like speaking out against the "agents of intolerance" like Pat Roberston, but then in this election he had to suck-up to them to solidify his base.  I actually voted for McCain in the 2000 primary in Vermont, for two reasons.  I knew Gore would win the state, and I already really hated "W"!  McCain did win VT that year, which was gratifying.

@SoleSoul:  I cant forgive Nader for blowing the 2000 election for Gore.  think how different things would have been over the last 8 years if that had not happened.  No war in Iraq with 4000+ American casualties, and how many tens of thousands of Iraqi casualties, most of them civilian.  The EPA would not be a gutted useless organization, and no Alito and Roberts on the Supreme Court.  I'll stop but I could go on and on...bleah.

@Motti:  Healthcare is not an issue that I know much about, having had no significant health  problems for 20 years.  My gf on the other hand has a very detailed and deep undertanding of the health-care system and its problems, having suffered from more than one chronic problem for the last couple decades, and had to manage care for several gravely ill family members.  The thing she is worried most about McCain is his health-care proposals.  From her perspective she thinks it will really bad for millions of people, who will have less coverage that is in the end more expensive, causing even more people to become uninsured.  I couldnt tell you the details of her opinions about this, but I trust her knowledge about it more than anyone I know personally.

That was a fun interview.

Sentient species taste better...

Okay, just for the record here.

I am not the one voting for Nader.

That's my former roommate.

I asked you guys, in this thread, if any jury would convict me...but I didn't really get a response.

well i've mostly kept quiet for this discussion, but hey why not throw my two pents in? nielo and SB have already heard a bit about my own views on voting. before i say anything else, i sent my absentee ballot in last week. in my case i felt the most important thing i voted on was prop. 8, the initiative to change california's constitution effectively  banning the right for people to marry others of the same sex.

i've lived in california for every presidenttial election i've been old enough to take part in. it's almost a foregone conclusion that caliofrnia's electoral votes will go to the democratic candidate.  i voted for Cynthia McKinney, even though i think she's kind of nuts, and here's why. since it's kind of a no-brainer that the state as a whole will vote democratic, it's not more a wasted vote than anything else i can do; no matter who i vote for, my electoral vote will still go to Obama. i registered democrat and voted for Obama in the primaries. i consider that the most important thing i've done in this election cycle. i voted green for the actual president, not merely because i could do it in confidence that my electoral college vote would go to Obama, but because i believe third parties can bring issues to the table that the mainstream parties tend to ignore, and the green party tends to have much more similar priorities to my own than any other party. here's the thing: if a third party gets 5% of the popular vote, they will receive federal funding next election and have a place in the major debates, and i want to see that happen.

were that to happen, would that mean next election the democrats would have a tougher time securing the 'far' left? perhaps. it really depends on how they respond. i think if they were to show a strong, tempered, well-thought-out platform addressing the sorts of issues the green party brings to the table, they wouldn't have to worry. the thing is, the democrats are weak as a party. Obama happens to be a very strong candidate. in my opinion he takes the time to understand the issues about which he speaks, rather than simply memorizing talking points (even if the debates this election have been little more than recitations of talking points). the party needs more politicians like him. i think he is, or rather those characteristics are, the reason voter turn-out among democrats has been so much higher this year.

this election's been about the war and the economy, and on these two points i think Obama is clearly the stronger candidate. but these won't always be the issues du jour (god willing). if the democrats wish to become the strong party they once were, they need to stop being so wishy-washy about so many issues. i don't think their real challenge is developing stances on various other issues; i think their real challenge is to learn to talk about them in ways that give people confidence. i think as long as they play the same game as the republicans, relying on 3-syllabe sound bites and "common-sense" (i.e., poorly informed) notions of issues, they'll always come in second to the republican party as a whole. hopefully i won't offend anyone in saying this, but i believe conservatism thrives on ignorance. not necessarily the abstract philosophy, valuing things like tradition and community. any civilized person should see the value in those things. i think what some republicans call conservativism is really blatant manipulation.

take prop. 8 here in CA. the conservative argument is that they are protecting the integrity of their families and the family as a unit, and asserting their rights as voters. they don't spell-out in any way how same-sex marriages threaten their own families, let alone the "integrity" of "the family unit." in fact, numerous anthropological, psychological and sociological studies have show that families with same-sex parents are as strong or stronger, have children as healthy and well-adjusted or more, and contribute to their communities just as significantly or more so--than families headed by heterosexual couples. and the fact that they believe it's their right to do this? well, all i'll say on that is that i think it means such people fail to understand the constitution itself. and the sad thing is, i'm a lot less certain about the outcome of this measure than i am of the presidential election.

i've also said this before, but personally i want it to go the other way around. government should have nothing to do with marriage. in my eyes, awknowledging that it's a tradition rooted in religion, and not government, would solve all the problems. any couple would register as domestic partners for tax and other purposes, and marriage is a ceromony left between you, your partner(s), and your spiritual ogranizations. but i digress.

i wandered off topic there for a minute. my point about the democrats is, if they can't be "the party of the people," then i'm prepared to take my vote elsewhere. but if they get their sh*t together, i'll be happy to stay true blue. as for the republicans being manipulative, well, here's the thing. they say they value tradition and community and the family, but they also value de-regulated markets and even taxes. and it's the market, vis-a-vis consumerism, that's destabilizing traditional values in the country. how person X or Y votes is of little importances when it's unequivocally businesses that are peddling so much of the media influencing children who grow older and de-invest in families and communities; it's businesses making it harder to keep parents at home and involved by creating  workplaces that sap almost all a person's energy, and it's the people in charge of businesses making so much money and demanding lower taxes, tax money which had once been spent keeping kids off the streets, the mentally ill in places they could (maybe possibly) get help, etc.

oh, and it's businesses (those guys at the top) who profit from war, not "joe sixpack." so how the party can advocate that kind of a market and yet claim to value tradition and family, well, it's beyond me.

Yep I didnt misunderstand that SoleSoul.   As for conviction, its a good thing you can edit previous posts.  Good for covering your trail.  Hmmm, my memory seems to be getting a bit fuzzy...what were we talking about?  I dont really remember now.  Well I'm sure nobody else will remember either, and there was nothing untoward or illegal said.

@ Dys:  I voted last Thursday here in VT, being lucky to live in one of the states with early voting.  There was a line of 0 people for me to wait behind, hehe.  Fairfax VT is less than 4000 people, and with only 93 people per square mile. 

Totally agree with you about marriage, whether it be same or opposite sex.  Government should not be involved at all in my opinion.  When politicians speak of "family values" I always know that they do not share my values or ethics, and in fact are most likely unethical people, from my moral perspective at least.

About conservatism and ignorance.  I've read many things lately written by conservative intellectuals saying that they feel like they are being driven out of the party, as Republican candidates try to consistently appeal to the basest emotions of the electorate.  The founding ideals of modern american conservatism have been all but abandoned over the last few election cycles, as the party became more focused on winning and holding power, than about standing up for their ideals.  The long-term results of this is now becoming evident.  I hope that this will push the GOP to some substantive reforms and the party will shift back towards the center.

Sentient species taste better...

Well, both sides have used anti-intellectualism in this election cycle, which is one of the really scary things.  Certainly, you see a lot more of it on the conservative side, but what sticks out in my memory (maybe because I took it a little personally) is Hillary Clinton's "I'm not going to throw my lot in with economists" line.  I am an econ major, so I might be a little biased, but to me this was tantamount to a doctor saying "Putting a band-aid on that wound won't stop the infection," and the patient saying "I'm not going to throw my lot in with doctors!"  If I had ever had any intention of voting for her, that definitely would've ruined her for me.  As it was, I voted for Richardson in the primaries.  I didn't think he had a chance of winning, but I hoped he would do well enough to get the VP slot on Obama's ticket (that ticket wouldn't appeal to the white supremacists, but I don't think they vote Democratic very often anyways).

Enlightening reads, and my personal congrats to a consistently fair and polite handling of various political views. I applaud each and every one of you.

I voted last week (Indiana also has early voting, was in line just over an hour).

I wrote this on Sept. 11th, 2008 as clarification to some friends around me that wondered why I have respect for both parties on different issues. 

I believe in a strong centralized government but I am against Big government. It sounds like a contradiction no? A strong centralized government is needed for quick decision making, rapid response to emergencies, for better coordination of policy making and implementation. Big government however, is bloated with bureaucratic red tape and unnecessary agencies that limit the People's ability to hold their government accountable. One does not need Big government to have an Effective government.

I believe in a Strong Military Policy that is tempered with strong alliances and bilateral cooperation. However, not all multilateral cooperation is beneficial. We should not let the inefficiencies of some world organizations limit our ability to secure ourselves militarily, financially, or moralistically. We should not go looking for war, but if war should come to us, then let us be confident in victory. Likewise, to be ignorant of the situation abroad is to invite future consequences. An effective and superb intelligence community is essential to a Strong Military.

I believe that life is precious and that every child that is born deserves a chance. However, I am empathetic to the cases that may try one's soul. Abortions in case of rape, incest, or the health of the mother should be considered carefully and hard by those involved, but that a knowledgeable and practiced physician is available to those that make such a choice. On the flip side of this, an adoption and foster system that is held accountable and to high standards is a MUST, because we can not let children be born into this world only to be abused and left behind in a broken system.

I am for and support Alternative Energy, as we can not continue to be held hostage by Oil. However, we must be willing to look at the costs of all of our available technologies including nuclear, coal, solar, wind, geothermal, hydroelectric, ethanol, and so on. We also must look to ourselves, the vast waste of resources because of our own greed must change. I'm not saying we all need to become Ultra Environmentalists and use all Organic products and walk everywhere- but that we should support Recycling, should support innovation into higher gas mileage, support more fuel efficient products and so on. We can maintain our lifestyle and be intelligent about it.

I am a believer that Isolation on the World Stage does nothing but limit our ability to protect ourselves militarily and economically. That being said, we don't need to sell out either. We need to embrace the opportunity to be true leaders in the world, with respect, honor, and dignity. It can't just be done with saber-rattling and unilateralism, but requires a strong sense of determination, of moral fiber, and the belief that true freedom comes from within, not from without. We need to support our allies and those that would support freedom, and truly denounce those that would seek to impose their power onto the People. We can not continue in good conscience to support regimes that gain economic profit from us while they oppress and let those that would seek to do us harm inhabit their lands.

I am very against the continued growth of our debt and deficit spending. This weight around our neck will eventually cause our neck to snap unless we throw off this shackle once and for all. It will not be an easy road, as anyone that has dealt with their own debt will tell you, but the joy that occurs after it is off is beyond any feelings of the "instant pleasure" received from buying on credit when one is in debt. This is not to say that I'm always against deficit spending, I think it is important for the Government to be able to have money available in times of crisis, but this current continued economic policy in Washington is certain to cause nothing but heartache later on.

And finally, just remember its another 9 years before I am eligible to run for President of the United States

I strike FIRST!!

https://forums.elementalgame.com/

Woohoo! That trumps political concerns for a moment!

Sentient species taste better...

Because its time for REAL change, not the Obama different side of same coin.  But I really don't like Nader either.

I guess I'm the only McCain supporter here.  Well, there had to be one, right?    

End of quote

No, I've always liked McCain.  I voted for him in the primary 8 years ago!  I think he is more honest than, most and more prone to buck party trends to do some real good, especially on campaign finance reform. 

McCain is not Bush.

For VT governor, I voted for a third party candidate, from the Renewable Energy Party.  For governor this year, there's both a Democrat and a Progressive party candidate, so of course neither of them will win.  My vote is a protest vote against their stupdity.

Sentient species taste better...

@Bilverseacher

(Haha)

I hope you take this as a compliment, as I sincerely mean it as one, but given many of the things you've posted in the past, and particularly those regarding politics, I would have guessed you to be older than that by at least ten years.

You are wise, young grasshopper.

For the record, I'm younger than you, so the grasshopper thing is just a joke.

*breathes sigh of relief*

I was starting to think no-one noticed, and i thought it was funny....

@Soul Sole: Thank you very much, I do indeed appreciate the compliment.  I like to think that not all of us "young people" are the miscreants the media/society sometimes likes to make us out to be. And I think you showcase your own wisdom too, so I tip my hat sir.

@Neilo: Of course I noticed, I just find it easier to ignore you   Don't worry, if Dys has his way it looks like you and I will be having some very fun go-arounds in our game.

Clearly you haven't heard how things will work in my country.  The currency is going to be poisonous toads!

(Kryo said I can't use frogs.  :()

But in all seriousness the ideas that I have politically are crazier than anyone who's ever been elected, so I don't expect anyone to consider them viable for another 20 years.

@ Silverbeacher:

I'll vote for you in 2020!  I agree with 99% of what you stated in your political views. 

I think our biggest problem from both major parties is that they are all about special interest and reelection, and not about representing the people.  I think the founding father's vision was of the citizen servant that served a duty in office and then went back to their other life as a farmer, doctor, etc. not a career politician.  The two things that I strongly believe in is campaign finance reform and term limits, and I think that we have to change those thing in order to effect change in any other part of gevernment.  Once elected officials have no incentive to raise money and are not 'owned' by the lobbists, they will be able to create laws and policy that makes sense for everyone, and not certain groups with money. 

OMG, it's begun, Obama has 3 electoral votes while Mccain has 5. If McCain wins than I'm gonna sceam!

i i hate to say this if Obama wins he will probaly get shoot, and if McCain wins he will kill over.

if Mccain kicks the buckect while in office, Sarah Palin will take his place!

This irked me somewhat. went to vote today - no lines, no confusion. No new electronic contraption to figure out - simple fill in the bubble with this marker. No problems yet, right?

There were 18 issues on the ballot - the constitution referendum (state constitution requires a vote whether to hold a convention to write a new constitution every 20 years), 4 judges (yes/no vote, does X deserve to keep job?), and 13 races - president, US rep, state senator, state rep, and 9 county/city positions. Sounds fine, right?

Of those 13 races EIGHT WERE UNCONTESTED!!! Not the county races, either! Both state rep and state senate races were uncontested, the democrats didn't even try!

I said I would have needed nukes to change my state's vote, and I meant it. Even though the rest of the state is republican by a vast majority, it doesn't matter - if Obama can't carry Ilinois with 70% of the vote, he should concede even if he wins the rest of the country.

Politics in Illinois is a joke. Half the population of Chicago (no, not the city - if you live south of I-80, everything within 50 miles of O'Hare is considered Chicago) doesn't realize Chicago isn't the capitol of the state. This includes the governor, apparently. We supply this moron a pretty decent house in Springfield, yet he flies home often and tries to run the state from there.

I'm really hoping we can make history again. That's right, Illinois has the dubious distinction of being the only state where one former governor has given another former governor a ride to federal prison. Hopefully, Governor Tompson will be generous enough to do the same for Blagoyevich when (not if) his time comes.

Rant over.

102 v 39 is the info i have atm.....

Looking good but early days yet!!!