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thebutterfly
Join Date 05/2007
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Tactics of tourism (too much of the good stuff)

November 10, 2007 12:31:29 PM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I've just played a beta game on suicidal - my first one for TA - and it was too easy: I had no financial problems at all: I played as the Arceans (influential version) and made a true RUSH for empty space. I followed the normal colony rush with an empty space space station rush. I also built the restaurant. I got so much money from tourism that I NEVER ever built an economic building (except the economic capital) or a single freighter.
I did pump up my influence resource for even more money.
After I had secured my position and built my first fleets to hold off the others - the game got boring because I could go around rush-buying things or upgrading all of my ships at once.

I would appreciate it, if you tuned down tourism from tenfold to maybe five-fold. Thank you!

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thebutterfly
MaxAstro
Join Date 10/2007
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Reply #1 November 10, 2007 12:57:08 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I would agree with this. The amount of money you get from tourism is now completely over the top; you don't even really have to build economic buildings... Playing as the Torians, I was able to turn taxes down to 0% and still make 500/week even with a massive army and insane amounts of production.
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thebutterfly
Hawawaa
Join Date 09/2006
+33
Reply #2 November 10, 2007 1:22:33 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Ya this is true. I am playing still on my first beta 2 game. In the first 20-30 turns my econ had a treasury of 20000-40000 OMG!!! This has never happened to me before so quickly. I mean holy CRAP! This is cool but too easy. Just tweak with the tourism a bit. Or make tourism become great like this over time hell I don't know but you Stardock with figure it out and still make it sweet. Hell the Korgath with this econ omg. I cant wait to see the Thalans or the Yor bust out and destroy all. OMG CANT WAIT!!!
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bonscott
Join Date 04/2003
+19
Reply #3 November 10, 2007 1:36:19 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Yes, I agree that Tourism is a bit much. After about 10 turns I was making 90+ per turn with tourism and now it's nearly 600 per turn. I've got my taxes down to 35% and my morale is nearly 100% everywhere. With 100% spending I'm still making 50+ a turn. Just is a bit too easy. Before managing your economy was a tricky balance. Now it's just on autopilot.
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thebutterfly
MaxAstro
Join Date 10/2007
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Reply #4 November 10, 2007 2:06:32 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Heh, wait till you get towards end game, I was getting literally over 2000/week from tourism at the end of a medium-size galaxy influence victory.
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thebutterfly
shiva7663
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #5 November 10, 2007 2:24:27 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I must just suck, because during my last game I regularly had to bounce between 0% and 100% production slider to keep from getting below -500 bc in the treasury.
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thebutterfly
janz84
Join Date 05/2007
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Reply #6 November 10, 2007 2:29:07 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I must just suck, because during my last game I regularly had to bounce between 0% and 100% production slider to keep from getting below -500 bc in the treasury.


same here... how do you manage to get such great cash flows?
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thebutterfly
MaxAstro
Join Date 10/2007
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Reply #7 November 10, 2007 2:53:03 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Colony rush + lots of influence = WAAAAAAAY huge amounts of tourism monies.
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thebutterfly
Bingjack
Join Date 02/2006
+10
Reply #8 November 10, 2007 3:08:56 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Even 5X tourism income seems like way too much. 10x seems absurd. 2 or 3x would make a significant difference and help people avoid the early game crash, as well as making things run smoother during conquest phases. 5-10X makes economy infrastructure inconsequential.


Unless players are no longer expected to have to build an economy as part of gameplay.


I'd really rather have something more like 2-3X DA tourism levels, and get my starting money back. If they were looking to boost income, why not boost trade income instead to levels that make that particular mechanic much more worthwhile than it is now? In DA I end up making 500-2500 a turn, and never build a tardeship except a couple in the early game to stave off invasion.
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thebutterfly
Megajames75
Join Date 07/2007
+2
Reply #9 November 10, 2007 5:22:11 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Nope, tourism needs to be changed, not looking at your infulnnse, but at other stats to decide how much in come you get.
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thebutterfly
EMH2006
Join Date 02/2006
+5
Reply #10 November 10, 2007 6:13:27 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Heh tourism is veeery good. I will also say its too good lol. So easy to get profit!
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thebutterfly
Gowain
Join Date 02/2005
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Reply #11 November 10, 2007 6:33:32 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I agree that it's kind of ridiculous as it stands now. Economic buildings almost seem a waste of tiles with the levels of profit tourism is bringing in, especially when you consider that you don't really have to do much to get tourism. I'd rather see trade get boosted, honestly. That way it seems more like you're working for your money, and it gives players more of an incentive to attack trade routes and try to disrupt their opponents' economies.
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MaxAstro
Join Date 10/2007
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Reply #12 November 10, 2007 7:12:31 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I'd agree; a 10X boost to trade would be more reasonable than a 10X boost to tourism is!
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thebutterfly
Starstriker1
Join Date 03/2006
+5
Reply #13 November 10, 2007 7:19:48 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Trade needs a bit of an increase (that said, the Korx haven't made themselves known yet) and the influence cash is pushing it a bit. It's free money, with no morale penalty or trade routes to manage, and it equals or exceeds my tax income!
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thebutterfly
Nabatam
Join Date 12/2003
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Reply #14 November 10, 2007 7:21:15 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Besides, only certain civs should enjoy the benefits of tourism.

The way I see it I can't imagine any "future" tourist wanting to go visit the Drengin slave pits, considering they most likely will not return to tell the tale
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Gowain
Join Date 02/2005
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Reply #15 November 10, 2007 7:48:00 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

Besides, only certain civs should enjoy the benefits of tourism.

The way I see it I can't imagine any "future" tourist wanting to go visit the Drengin slave pits, considering they most likely will not return to tell the tale


Denying evil races like the Dregnin access to a major component of the game's economy would be problematic, at best. You'd need to give them something in return to offset that loss. Then there'd be all the people that would end up doing elaborate, pages-long benefits analyses arguing that one alignment or the other has some huge inherent bonus because X is better than Y. I really can't see that ending in a manner that doesn't leave a non-trivial chunk of the playerbase annoyed that their favourite civ got nerfed, whether it really did or not.

Besides, if people still visit places like Myanmar/Burma in the modern day, there's no reason to assume there won't be some people who'd visit the Dregnin in the future, even if the Dregnin are more extreme. Takes all kinds to make the galaxy go round.
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Rasori
Join Date 05/2006
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Reply #16 November 10, 2007 8:32:40 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Besides, as long as you're quiet about it, it's fun to go to other places and criticize the way they're run.
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dagger
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #17 November 10, 2007 9:37:52 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Although I agree that trade income should be increased (perhaps by 25-50%), trade income is a mid to late game benefit. You have to research 4 technologies, build the freighter (when you should probably be building other things), and get the freighter to the other civ's world. Additionally, trade routes aren't worth very much when you first establish them. Stardock has clearly stated that the tourism change is intended to help with the economic crash caused by the colonization phaze (which happens early in the game). I propose a 3X tourism increase (2X is to little). Additionally, if the United Planets resolution to open up trade (2X) and the Increased tourism mega event (10X tourism, decreased tolerance of taxes) are still in the game, they should be removed. (To avoid insanely high revenue)
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MaxAstro
Join Date 10/2007
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Reply #18 November 10, 2007 10:26:22 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Actually, the open up trade resolution should stay. But the Tourism mega event should definately go.
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thehandofzarquon
Join Date 09/2006
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Reply #19 November 10, 2007 11:55:28 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Actually, the open up trade resolution should stay. But the Tourism mega event should definately go.


Eh, Mega Events are supposed to be major ways to shake up the gameplay. I'd say let it stay. Of course, you can always scale it down to 5x tourism and that would still be a major change...
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mystic
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #20 November 11, 2007 4:33:22 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
How about making it a difficulty setting
on difficult cakewalk make it 10 times as much.
and on suicidal make it 1x , so what it was before.
and with every difficult step decreas multiplier by 1.
So crippling should be at x3 (or was it x4)
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Rhaco
Join Date 12/2005
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Reply #21 November 11, 2007 5:20:24 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I had a look and there seems to be an additional problem: thanks to the multiplier you get vast amounts of tourism income, but only on the smaller galaxies.
Using the same settings I got maybe 80+ in tourism income after a few turns on a small galaxy, but only 5 for a gigantic one...
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shiva7663
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #22 November 11, 2007 6:04:19 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
There would be plenty of reasons for (not very nice) people to do the tourist thing in Drengin space. Hunting preserves stocked with sentients, for example.
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Bingjack
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #23 November 11, 2007 6:38:44 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Denying evil races like the Dregnin access to a major component of the game's economy would be problematic, at best. You'd need to give them something in return to offset that loss. T



You mean, like the Evil civs have had the uber cheesy double economy via the MCC since the launch of the game, that neutrals and goods are completely outclassed by? I have no problem whatsoever making tourism *slightly* more profitable for good or neutral civs (neutral would probably be the best tourism generators because of relaxed morals...think vegas...but still being able to go about your business without being killed or enslaved) to compensate for the MCC (assuming it goes unchaged). It makes perfect sense conceptually, and would be a much needed tradeoff towards evil's clear finaincial superiority as of DA.

But if there is to be a massive econ buff for the players, I'd much rather see it directed at trade. Trade needs love.

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MrVegetable
Join Date 04/2007
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Reply #24 November 11, 2007 11:34:38 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
You haven't seen the TRUE power of Tourism...(or maybe you have)...

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/7312/100xtourismaq5.jpg

This is with what I presume was a mega event (as I never saw it in DL) where tourism was increased by 10 fold and tax tolerance reduced. It's like a permanent economic boom. Maybe take out the mega event rather than nerfing tourism?
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TheDisruptor1
Join Date 02/2007
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Reply #25 November 11, 2007 2:17:29 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Has anyone gotten the 10x tourism event yet or did they remove it? That would mean 100x tourism income or over 20k a turn.
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