[TA Beta] How best to use fleet modules (ship design theory)

from GalCiv2 Forums
Thought I would open this up, and invite those of you who really understand the nitty gritty of the combat system to chime in here and comment, to know how to best make use of the fleet modules.


It seems to me that since you wouldn't want to dilute the firepower of your normal ships with these, and you only need one per fleet, the addition of fleet modules will see the creation of a new dedicated ship class in TA, the "Command Ship". The question is, how best to construct these?


They need to be fleeted with your attack ships during combat to get the bonuses, so how do you construct them so the AI attacks them last? I've never gone into combat with non-combat craft, like transports, fleeted with attack craft...do they even take part in the battle? Is it worth putting any weapons or all-defenses on the ships, or will that just draw the AI's attention? Would you want cargo hulls, or as many HP as possible?


Has anyone figured out some fun and cheesy ways to use them yet? I was wondering if it might be be practical to keep a cheap "rocket booster" speed rig at each of my worlds , with the speed modules, to speed up ships travel between worlds.

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Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
They need to be fleeted with your attack ships during combat to get the bonuses, so how do you construct them so the AI attacks them last? I've never gone into comabt with non-combat craft, like transports, fleeted with attack craft...do they even take part in the battle? Is it worth putting any weapons or all-defenses on the ships, or will that just draw the AI's attention? Would you want cargo hulls, or as many HP as possible?
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Don't put any weapons on the command ship, nor defenses. Just the boosting modules, engines, and range modules (as necessary). I'll probably stick with a cargo hull for these kind of ships since a cargo hull has a little over half the available space that a Huge ship does, half the logistics cost, and a heck of a lot cheaper than a huge hull to boot.

Has anyone figured out some fun and cheesy ways to use them yet? I was wondering if it might be be practical to keep a cheap "rocket booster" speed rig at each of my worlds , with the speed modules, to speed up ships travel between worlds.
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I don't think the modules stack with each other, so it would be at most a +3 speed boost. Could be worth it, as long as the rocket booster has enough engines to make sure its own speed doesn't slow the others down. The Arceans would probably get the most benefit out of such an arrangement. Too bad it seems that Fleet Warp Bubbles are supposed to be Terran-only techs... and hard to trade for, more than likely.

Definitely a cool idea, though... wasn't there a group in Dune that basically did this for other factions (Guild of Navigators or something or other)?

Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

They need to be fleeted with your attack ships during combat to get the bonuses, so how do you construct them so the AI attacks them last? I've never gone into comabt with non-combat craft, like transports, fleeted with attack craft...do they even take part in the battle? Is it worth putting any weapons or all-defenses on the ships, or will that just draw the AI's attention? Would you want cargo hulls, or as many HP as possible?
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Don't put any weapons on the command ship, nor defenses. Just the boosting modules, engines, and range modules (as necessary). I'll probably stick with a cargo hull for these kind of ships since a cargo hull has a little over half the available space that a Huge ship does, half the logistics cost, and a heck of a lot cheaper than a huge hull to boot.
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No doubt you're right about that, but it's one of those things that makes me wish for a deeper combat model. After all, such a ship would be a high value target - easy to bring down and its loss crippling to the fleet that it's with.

[Edit]
Oh, and the Spacing Guild in Dune was the means of fast travel throughout the universe, yes.
ObjectDock - Access shortcuts and frequently used applications from an animated dock.
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I use medium hull(good point about cargo!) and use the +25% attack if you attack first, and warp bubbles. Fleet +20/+33% attack overall replace as time permits.

Early game its the command ship with lots of small/tiny ships. Late game its the same size command ship with a mix.

Logistics is king in TA
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I wonder if the speed module command ships can be used to make super dominator minion spam actually useful. Come to think of it, command ships + minion spam might be a really effective early to mid game fighting force. If those things were all of a sudden moving at 6 speed , rather than 3, it dramatically changes their usefulness.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

No doubt you're right about that, but it's one of those things that makes me wish for a deeper combat model. After all, such a ship would be a high value target - easy to bring down and its loss crippling to the fleet that it's with.
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I dunno - in my own vision of fleet battles, the command ship would hang back from the fight, making it so you have to wade through the fighters before you can get to the command ship. Just like with transports, constructors, freighters, whatever. You don't actually send the command ship into battle per se, you just have it there providing targeting and such.

Think Battlestar Galactica (new, not old - never personally have seen the old series) - the vipers always engage the cylon raiders before anybody gets near a command vessel. If somebody tries for a command ship, it tends to be a situation where the other force intercepts ASAP.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Think Battlestar Galactica (new, not old - never personally have seen the old series) - the vipers always engage the cylon raiders before anybody gets near a command vessel. If somebody tries for a command ship, it tends to be a situation where the other force intercepts ASAP.
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The Galactica has some big ass guns, and nukes to boot. It's more of the classic "carrier" archetype (not to be found in GC sadly, but that's another thread...). I think the more appropriate analog to the GC "Command" ship are those mobile command centers in modern military that coordinate force movements (from a safe distance), but have no direct offensive capability.


Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Easy way to make command ship feasible: Have a module called a "Target" module, or "ECM" module or something like that. Basically, ships in fleets that have Target modules have to be attacked first by the enemy.

So with a module like that you could force your opponent not to attack your command ship until the other ships (which you would attach these modules too) get taken out. Or have it work in reverse - a ship with the module cannot be attacked until every other ship in the fleet has been destroyed.

The ability to force enemies to target certain ships would add another level of strategy to fleet building...
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
CodeCritter mentioned this in another thread:
If the ship is in a fleet, the best FSE module in the fleet becomes the active FSE ship. The movement points for this ship are ignored when calculating the fleet speed. So, the fleet's moves will be based off of the ship with the least moves in the fleet (not counting the active FSE ship) plus the FSE bonus.
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Now, whether this changes how I design my command ships or not, I dunno. But, having to basically put only a single "engine" on a huge ship and having it move just as fast as any other ship in a fleet seems like it could be a really big deal. That's a good bit of extra space to put weapons and defenses...

However, Bingjack's earlier idea about making cheap "rocket booster" ship networks is a very feasible idea in light of this information...
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
However, Bingjack's earlier idea about making cheap "rocket booster" ship networks is a very feasible idea in light of this information...
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I'm actually more interested in trying to use fleet modules to make drengin minion spam into an unstoppable mid game fighting force now I'll be trying that out tonight.

Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Thought I would open this up, and invite those of you who really understand the nitty gritty of the combat system to chime in here and comment, to know how to best make use of the fleet modules.
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Hi.  I'm the developer who worked on both the new modules and the combat system, so maybe I can shed some light on the subject. 

Check out my post on this thread explaining how the speed modules work:
https://forums.galciv2.com/?aid=166519#1349900

Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
CodeCritter mentioned this in another thread:

If the ship is in a fleet, the best FSE module in the fleet becomes the active FSE ship. The movement points for this ship are ignored when calculating the fleet speed. So, the fleet's moves will be based off of the ship with the least moves in the fleet (not counting the active FSE ship) plus the FSE bonus.


Now, whether this changes how I design my command ships or not, I dunno. But, having to basically put only a single "engine" on a huge ship and having it move just as fast as any other ship in a fleet seems like it could be a really big deal. That's a good bit of extra space to put weapons and defenses...

However, Bingjack's earlier idea about making cheap "rocket booster" ship networks is a very feasible idea in light of this information...
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This seems like a great way to get ridiculously fast warships, especially if you use the all-attack route. Massively overgunned huge hull with FSE and an all engine cargo hull (or a transport with the rest engines) would give a 40+ speed warship
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

After all, such a ship would be a high value target
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The targeting system for fleet battles has been modified slightly so that ships with the new modules are preferred over a ship that has the same stats minus the new module. The targeting system has not been finalized yet so we may change this.

 

Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

CodeCritter mentioned this in another thread:

If the ship is in a fleet, the best FSE module in the fleet becomes the active FSE ship. The movement points for this ship are ignored when calculating the fleet speed. So, the fleet's moves will be based off of the ship with the least moves in the fleet (not counting the active FSE ship) plus the FSE bonus.


Now, whether this changes how I design my command ships or not, I dunno. But, having to basically put only a single "engine" on a huge ship and having it move just as fast as any other ship in a fleet seems like it could be a really big deal. That's a good bit of extra space to put weapons and defenses...

However, Bingjack's earlier idea about making cheap "rocket booster" ship networks is a very feasible idea in light of this information...


This seems like a great way to get ridiculously fast warships, especially if you use the all-attack route. Massively overgunned huge hull with FSE and an all engine cargo hull (or a transport with the rest engines) would give a 40+ speed warship
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A transport or colony with an FSE and no engines, paired with this same cargo hull could be pretty effective as well. You wouldn't lose all those expensive engines every time you do a planetary invasion like you do now. Hmm...Do I sense a new solution for colony spam?
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Now, whether this changes how I design my command ships or not, I dunno. But, having to basically put only a single "engine" on a huge ship and having it move just as fast as any other ship in a fleet seems like it could be a really big deal. That's a good bit of extra space to put weapons and defenses...
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I like the way this involves a choice between going for more speed with existing firepower (the "dance around the enemy fleet" approach), or the same speed with more firepower ("blast the suckers when you finally arrive"). I can see choosing one or the other, depending on the circumstances and how a war is going.

The targeting system for fleet battles has been modified slightly so that ships with the new modules are preferred over a ship that has the same stats minus the new module. The targeting system has not been finalized yet so we may change this.
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So a small "command ship" with no weapons or defense would still be targeted last, and therefore be very survivable, right?

Hmmm... and what happens if it's a larger ship with more than one of these modules? That makes it more of a target than if it has only one? Balancing all that could get tricky, but it sounds like fun.


Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Here's one for the Korath: Bundle a bunch of spore ships with a couple cheap engines with a ship with a colony/troop module and a fleet speed module, for a fast, economical one-two planetary takeover punch. Stop at a planet, detach a spore ship into it, land the troop module to deposit some seed population, take back off, re-fleet and move on to the next world. Rinse and repeat.
Reply #16 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I've experimented with two setups so far:

1) My mainstay medium attack ships have the targeting module I bought from the Arceans (25% extra damage for the fleet during a first strike) instead of the 25% more weaponry that would have fit in it's place. In a prolonged battle, it's not a good setup, but if you expect to destroy or cripple in the first volley or so, the huge attack bonuses during the first strike may very well be worth it... even if you AREN'T arcean!
2) Carrier model, as current. I use the cargo hulls as well (as Drengin) with the warp bubble module and their top level weapons module (33% more damage to the fleet). The primary advantage lies in the speed, of course, but the firepower lets you just MOW down anything in your way.