Alliances should trump treaties

Otherwise, we have a class of no-win situations

from GalCiv2 Forums
This has happened to me before, and it is vexing enough that I'm posting a cranky feature change request.

The new econ and research treaties were a gratifying step towards making the diplo portion of GC2 a stronger part of the game. But, if you have an ally who is attacked by an unallied AI with whom you have a treaty, you have no escape from getting a black mark on your diplo history. Either you break an alliance or you break a treaty, only you had no info about or influence over the relevant AI decisions.

Here's hoping that the TA schedule has time for a change like this.
4,781 views 9 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Come on, I know I'm not the only player who likes a diplomatic game. If you'd like to see this "feature" go away in TA, please chime in. Or is it really possible I'm the only one who's seen it even though I've seen it repeatedly?
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It hasnt actually happened to me. And i'm not really sure what the problem is. Yes i know it puts the plaer in a tough spot, but thats the game, you make your decision based on your strategy.

What i mean is, that i dont know what kind of information from the AI a player might expect. It makes its own decisions and we have to deal with them. Making those treaties is sometimes a heavy decision to make.

Sorry but i like this stuff.
Siege of Centauri
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It hasn't happened to me either, but it sounds like something that needs to be addressed.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Yes i know it puts the plaer in a tough spot, but thats the game, you make your decision based on your strategy.


A tough spot is a good thing, but this is a deeply illogical spot, IMO. I'm not saying that I expect a sudden increase in diplo intel for TA. What I am asking for is a tweak to the context so that choosing to honor an alliance outweighs the "dishonor" of breaking a treaty with someone who attacked your ally.

In other words, I think that an AI who has a treaty with me and attacks one of my allies is *the one who broke the treaty.* I'm the innocent party, but I get the black mark, and not the aggressor AI. Good relations are hard enough to maintain as-is.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Well, I agree with you GW. It's the expected response of a nation that has someone declare war on one of it's allies and it shouldn't be a diplo black mark.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Agreed.

However, I don't think that the AIs really take alliances into consideration well enough. If the weakest civ is allied with the largest, a middle power civilisation will happily declare war on the the weak civ and then acts surprised when they get their asses handed to them.

What bothers me, though, is that honouring an alliance is viewed by everyone else as an act of aggression, which seems counter intuitive. It gets bad, though, when attacking one civ leads to a fantastic series of world war one style conflicting alliances. It's not that this is a bad setup... it is, in fact, one of the risks of any alliance. However, the AI's lack of foresight in this regard is often frustrating.
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Well, I agree with you GW. It's the expected response of a nation that has someone declare war on one of it's allies and it shouldn't be a diplo black mark.


I second that as well. One's repuatation shouldn't drop because you stuck with your ally -- that's what would be expected of any nation (to stay with one's ally).
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I don't think that the AIs really take alliances into consideration well enough. If the weakest civ is allied with the largest, a middle power civilisation will happily declare war on the the weak civ and then acts surprised when they get their asses handed to them.


Starstriker's right on the money here about this major AI weakness.

Several times, I've watched an AI that was "on my list" walk right into the trap described here when I was the largest civ and working twoards a diplo win. A move like that also seems to make it easier to persuade other AIs to attack the stupid mid-ranked aggressor.
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I just want to say that I love diplomacy games myself and would appreciate any further work on this area of the game. My last game I was on a gigantic map and I didn't fire a single shot at anyone until I was 7 turns away from winning. The fools turned on me and our fleets were forced to defend themselves.