Its a pretty huge feature to be asking for in a patch, especially considering the expertise required. You might want to start pushing for it in Gal Civ 3, though...

Hey there, kids and people.

I'm a Master of Orion veteran and total GalCiv bohab from the start, though admittedly a less-than-vocal one. But I feel like speaking up.

I first met Zack here a couple months ago over a telnet client, getting to know him better over IM. After talking to him for awhile, I learned of his blindness and his taste for strategy games, thereby hearing about how sparse the gaming field is for the blind. Not wanting to have him left out of some of the finest turn-based-strategy available, I started playing Master of Orion for him as advisor and executor, with him making the decisions.

Recently we started playing Galactic Civilizations II, and he loves it. Why not? Don't we all? But the most depressing thing is that he'd have to govern through a surrogate emperor. It inhibits the windows he has available for playing since he has to wait for me, and as he says, it's more that he's pulling strings than playing himself.

I am not a developer, nor a modder, nor an expert on software accessibility. But when people speak of budgetary issues and requisite expertise... I'm wondering how much effort is actually necessary. How much it would take to send data that GC2 is already using to, say, an output screen that a blind player's screen reader to pick up? Something? Anything? No, it's not gonna make much money. The blind community is not huge, and the blind gaming community smaller still. But from where I'm standing (realizing, however, that I'm not an expert in any sense), it doesn't seem an extraordinary stretch to make this game just a bit more accessible. If not Stardock, then hand it off to a modding team.

Isn't there anyone who would feel totally warm 'n' fuzzy doing this?

I can say I certainly would; I truly wish I had the technical know-how.

I believe what Zack may actually be playing is called Galactic Illuminati II!  

As a programmer, what occurs to me as a solution to the technical problem of doing this as a mod would be:

1. Writing an app that samples the screen bitmap for GalCiv 2 at a settable rate or when the user indicates it is to do so
2. The app would then use an optical character recognition library (common and available) to read the text it can find on the GalCiv 2 screen to decide which screen it's looking at
3. Knowing which GalCiv 2 screen it's looking at would then let it decide how to present the information on the screen to the text buffer for the audio reader program.
4. The information that the app sends to the audio reader text buffer would also include the distance of the mouse to the nearest button and whether or not the mouse is over said button?

Now, how to describe a map to a blind man I'm at a loss. Maybe someone can explain how to do this.

Another thing is that GalCiv 2 appears to be very open in its file formats. Maps and save game files can be parsed for info. The save game can be set to save every turn, which ensures the save game file is always current and parseable for current information. Combining screen scrape and save game file parsing would let you do some nice things.

Perhaps the map can be described as "The Drengins are to the northeast and occupy 34% of stars on the map. Their influence occupies 42% of the map. Their star systems are named blah blah blah and blah and they are closest to your star systems named blah and blah. Your border systems with the Drengin are considered to be blah, blah, and blah. The mouse cursor is over Battle Group 25 which is near your star system named blah and is selected". Maybe this could be a start? With how I've outlined, this could be done.


As far as funding goes, the US Federal Government gives away tons of my money as grants to fund development like this. Just a suggestion to Stardock

Matt

(edited)

Hello,
Speaking from an admittedly somewhat limited point of view here, I believe n interface such as the one you describe might be a little cumbersome. It is actually a little harder to picture maps, especially, when they're described in general terms like that. The way I am better able to deal with maps involves them merely being presented as a grid. This is the way a chess game works.
The contents of a square read out to me might be something like:
Position 11,1, No planets, in Drengin influence.
This is just an idea, of course, but if I could move around such a grid with arrow keys, as well as have a few shortcut keys of the variety 'Send me to the nearest object I own', or 'Send me to Earth', and access all the individual functions of a planet or fleet or whatever via the enter key or some sort of menu, this would work very well.
For global functions, I.E. arranging a diplomatic meeting, there could be either a menu provided which is accessed via a function key--in audio games, F1 seems to be a favorite for this kind of thing--or other shortcuts.
Now, I can't speak for programmers. However, it would seem to me that screen scraping is quite an inefficient method. However, parsing a file format might work, especially if the format contains everything with no hidden information.
Hope this helps some, and gives some ideas.
Thanks much,
Zack.

I see what you are saying. I guess I'm looking at this from a third party perspective, since a third party would probably be the one to make an interface for Galciv 2. So it looks like the map information can be strictly obtained from a saved game file then and described in grid fashion which is what you are comfortable with.

I think that a description of the map as a grid or anything else can be made from a saved game file without needing to obtain anything from the screen. However, for an interface like the one you described you have three realistic options that I see so far:
1. Have Stardock put this into the game, including the audio feedback or
2. A third - party would have to build an application that scans the screen image for user interface cues like what object is selected, what screen is visible, what are the relevant numbers and amounts, etcetera or
3. A third - party would have to build an application that generates GalCiv2 saved game files for GalCiv2 to process and would act as your "arrow key" interface for the game, complete with menus and everything like you described. This would eliminate the need to interract with GalCiv2, except for the part where the new turn needs to be generated. Also I think diplomacy would be out of the question for you also because the behaviors of the AIs are deterministic. I hardly do diplomacy anyways and just play duel. What would be extremely helpful for this option would be if Stardock included a command line option for Galciv2 to just generate the next turn file when it is run and do nothing else. It's possible that if someone at Stardock was asked very nicely this might be done.

So I take it then that use of the mouse is pretty much out of the question, right? (I am ignorant and poor in tact, but need information and assume nothing)

Hi,
Yes, the mouse is not an option--at least not in the physical sense. I can use hotkeys to move the mouse around--but that's by logical units, I.E. lines, words, etc. There are no screen reader hotkeys that could move the mouse with the precise control needed for GalCiv 2.
Also, I am somewhat disheartened that diplomacy would be out of the question. Is this only with the third option, or with all options?
Thanks for a speedy reply, and for your willingness to help,
Zack.

You're not missing much. Diplomacy isn't this game's pinacle.

You know, after thinking about it, diplomacy might be possible somehow if something is true about the saved game file. It's just that I noticed that when the player interracts with the AI, it makes decisions on the fly or "live", based upon what you offer in that moment. I'm trying to remember from way back when Brad Wardell posted some info on how diplomacy worked between turns. Maybe offers can be sent via saved game file. I'm not sure if trades are recorded in the save game after they happen or if offers are recorded. I'm guessing that only trades are recorded after the fact. If diplomacy only happens while the game is running and trades aren't tendered via the save stream then diplomacy simply won't be accessible with the third option.

If this is unfortunately the case, one possibility with the third option is that if agreements and trades are recorded in the saved game file to be made in the next turn, then your application could actually contain its own diplomacy piece and it could record trades into the file. This way, the AI (I assume) will suddenly see that it traded guns for butter the previous turn (via the third party application).

Hi,
I suppose that in terms of playability and not losing anything, if at all possible, I favor options 1 or 2, in that order. Now, I realize option 2 in particular might be an extremely time consuming application to write, unless my knowledge of programming is so limited that I don't know of a quick and dirty way to do it.
The fundamental consideration for me is whether or not I can play the game that sighted people play. This includes diplomacy, trade, combat, etc. I suppose I see no reason why it couldn't be made workable somehow, since there are no realtime decisions that need to be made. It's not like Doom or Quake or the like--which ironically enough have audio versions or conversions nowadays.
In fact, they've made an audio RTS, of all things. Fairly simple but still, it captures the essence of the genre I believe. It would seem that the evolution of audio games has skipped what to me seems a rather important and accessible generation.
Thanks much,
Zack.

Hi,
I realize that the likelyhood of anything being done about this idea of mine is rather slim. However, I just felt I should say that I am not the only person in the blind gaming community who is interested.
I have a few reasons for wanting the accessibility of GC 2 to be a reality, most of which I've stated on here previously.
One is that it requires no reflexes on the part of the player. Ironically, games which do require reflexes--RTS games, first person shooters, arcade-style clones--I swear, if I see another Space Invaders look-alike, I will die--are made accessible regularly.
Another is that it is a type of game which has, quite frankly, an everlasting appeal beyond the realm of 3D graphics cards and single play through experiences. Every game is different, and we have nothing like GalCiv 2 at all in terms of replayability, depth, or complexity. Not to mention AI which rivals anything we have managed to come up with.
Finally, it is unprecedented. There has never been a game company, mainstream or not, which has adapted one of its games for the visually impaired--especially not one which was originally intended for the sighted alone. This is the kind of thing that will break down all sorts of misconceptions and broaden the horizons of everybody, even beyond gaming if it's pursued.
I cannot force anybody to do anything here. I've no interest in that sort of tactic. All I ask is that Stardock give serious consideration to the various proposals outlined in this forum and try as best as possible to implement them, if they so desire. It isn't just for me, it'll be good for everybody in the end, and well worth whatever cost might pertain.
Thank you,
Zachary Kline.