I'm with Prezo. I like huge variety.

Alright, im on board. Selection!

Yeah, make it a seperate race if you can, and add Technologies.
You so close, so don't give up!
(Relishing the prospect of realising my Battlefleet on those Eldarly Advent!)
Is there a Download link anywhere?

Reports from the front say we have our first imported model just gota test it out for bugs pics will be pending

P.S. X this is a note to you get one so we can get this baby in game

Yeah, I'm here (mostly). I'll try to be online whenever I can and get in contact with you asap.

The testing version I'm working on is going well, with models, I'll be ready with a serious alpha draft soon. Once we get that up, we should have our own thread even if the IP restrictions prevent us from having an open download link.

well manuel is back and i got him working on the carnage and the murder for me using xsi unless inerts been doing that these are the ost likley to work yet

okay, that's great to hear. I'm still playing around with a slaughter that inert gave me that pops up a ton of errors but won't crash ever, so it's fine for my purposes.

I've got convertXSI converting, but it didn't give me anything, just an empty model. Grrr... Stupid program.

Haha yay! activity again! And im with everyone else, I would rather you put all the models in. But maybe as a suggestion, maybe just put in the models that fit the roles to begin with, and if thats all good, then add in the extra models, which will require a little more work because you will have to build a place for them in the tech tree.

As a side note, as Prezo has discovered, ive been 'advertising' your awesome mod out on the Battlefleet Gothic community forum, Port Maw. I hope you dont mind, but theyre all very excited over there. Unfortunatly, none of them know textures or anything like that, and so cant help =[ neither do i, but if there is anything i can help you with, im already there =]

I thought of something that would be cool! Maybe special abilities can be special orders from the game, like every ship starts with All Ahead Full, Burn Retros, and Lock On. Capitol Ships may provide to be a problem, though. Also, does this mod replace the current races, or merely add to them? It would be awesome seeing Emperor's Will being brought down on a Star Destroyer from the Star wars mod! You could also create an inquisition fleet? Man that would rock! I do request that you make the fleet colors more than a trim only visible on capitol ships. Maybe the craftworld eldar don't have a homeworld, but they have a craftworld that they use as a homeworld, and any planet it is present at they can build ships and resources with. Oh! They can get money instead of xp for destroying ships! *Head explodes*

edit: I would also like to join the cheerleader squad of the mod, where is registration?

well GreenKey we have already got the special orders being put in as abilities also IP restrictions say that we aren't alowed to release this mod with any other ip other than GWs and well our own that fits into the GW ip

Well, that sucks (about the IP stuff)! I figured you'd have something like that. Are you going to make the tyrant and Oberon and other useless ships slightly not useless? I guess it would be kinda fun to make units that suck really bad! I simply love using !!!'s!

Me, I want to make the useless ships less useless, but in some cases, that'll involve some significant changes. For example, the Retribution class battleship is armed with full broadsides and a heavy armored prow like a linebreaker, but has lances and most inexplicably trades firepower for range like a long range fire support ship. End result: it fails at both. Easy solution is to change the WBs to Strength 18 at 45 cms range, but I'm a little hesitant about changing statlines like that. The Oberon isn't that terrible except for the range nerf. So in that case, I just won't use the newest version and see how that (balanced) version plays. The Armageddon, we can just not code in the self-damaging bit and it should work pretty well. Lock on is almost required with those lances and turning restrictions anyway. The tyrant... oh crap, I don't know? Give it the range upgrade default for no added price, gives the people who can't hit a fleet an option to make it easier. That would make it a viable specialist ship for when you're fighting an enemy who can split his ships well as chaos or some other situations. Also lets you blast some stationary defenses, but it's still not a hugely useful ship unless you go whole hog to make up for bad maneuvering.

So yes, I'm not afraid to try some things to make ships work, but that stuff I will play with in testing builds to make sure if I can get the support. If not, I'll just balance it as if it were tabletop and I wanted to get rid of all the most blatant stupidity, but I won't mess with design (Hello rationally priced Chaos carriers and some fixed IN ship prices). However, if you want the costs and ships to be just like tabletop feel free to ask me, and I'll consider your opinions very heavily, I just don't want to waste everybody's time and UI space with ships that are essentially useless.

I have a feeling that quite a few ships won't be exactly the same price as in tabletop, because there are quite a few overpriced ships out there. For example, the Hellebore is a Nightshade and Hemlock taped together with half the hits, but for losing half its durability it only loses 5 points as compared to the combo. That's just not viable, and ruins the ship. If it were noticably cheaper, it'd make an interesting choice, but as it is, it's wasted ink.

Too much talk, but that's where I stand, I know what I want to try to do to fix the useless ships if everybody wants them fixed. I'll whip up two testing mods, one with fixed prices and one without (chaos doesn't really have broken ship designs), and you can compare. That sound about right?

The sad thing is nobody knows. It is just too much crap to really understand for even Steven Hawking  ! . I didn't mean oberon, I meant the battlecruiser that starts with an 'o'. I can't seem to remember what it is called. I only know that it sucks.

Its called the 'Overlord' battlecruiser, and it doesnt suck.... its just overpriced for what it offers. Personally, i dont see anything wrong with the Tyrant (with the upgrade) because you have a stg 10 WB broadside at 45cm. I wouldnt mind paying the extra 10 points for the extra range. People say "Well, after 30cm, you have the right column shift, which makes it essentially useless" But i would rather an 'essentially useless' gun at 45cm, than a gun that cant even go that far, and so is "entirely useless". which is better? a weak (even if it is unlikey)shot @ 45cm, or nothing at all @45cm? remember, if your range is only 30cm, it counts as a big fat 0 @45cm.

And most people will find that that increase in range will help out alot in battles, i find it frustrating when my ship is only 2cm out of range with its 30cm range guns. If i had the extra range with a Tyrant, i would have at least had an unlikely shot at the enemy.

Back to the Overlord. Its a support gunship, your not supposed to send it in with flying broadsides at close range. thats the job of the dominator and gothic and lunar. its supposed to sit just out of range of the enemy guns and take pot-shots at them. People mistake its '4 gun platforms' on its side for use as a dominator. Its not. It sits back, and snipes. Thats why it has such a bad opinion in the BFG community. I for one dont mind the ship, although it is slightly overpriced for what it does, its still a stg 8 @60cm, which is double the range of all the other cruisers. Its doesnt suck, its just theres a better battlecruiser out there.

and that is the Armageddon class!!! it combines good firepower with range, its a mix of the overlord and the lunar. Its got 45cm guns (and lances). Think about it like this, 1 lance = 3 WB, so stg 2 lances is stg 6 WB. the armageddon has stg 6 WB in one broadside, and stg 4 lances (inc. dorsals) so all up thats stg 18 WB @ 45cm (using the special rule thingy) which is pretty awesome! and its the cheapest out of all the battlecruisers. Thats why i feild 2 of them

i like the tyrant cos its the longest range ship i have bar the dorsal lances otherwise i dont know any of the other ships but i still want all of them... changes to prices i wouldent mind that much but changes to stats i would like to steer clear of as it ceses to be bfg if the ships aint the same

It doesn't really matter, we are going off topic. I will be the one that doesn't buy the tyrant. This is how I see it:

185 points tyrant=not helpful 185 points dominator=not helpful
195 points tyrant=somewhat helpful 190 points dominator=very helpful


It doesn't really matter, though, because to be truly good at the game, you must be able to crush anybody with any ship! I need to work on that.

My feeling on the Overlord is that the problem is it gets the same broadside as a lunar (figuring in the column shift), so 235 points for that piddling bit of firepower isn't all that useful when the lunar has to fire both broadsides just to be worth the price. It's overpriced because that weak firepower at range and the linebreaker torp prow it has both have to be paid for, but you can't use both. That need is also the problem of the Tyrant, because it has to fire both broadsides to be worth it (compare to how much firepower chaos gets for cheaper and it becomes apparent). If you get in close enough to use your broadsides (that's why you're paying for an armored prow, after all) you're probably closer than 30 cm. Therefore you paid firepower for range for nothing, but it is the only pure WB cruiser that has a torp nose, so that is one consideration.

The armageddon is a great ship, but when it came down to getting dauntlesses and dominators or armageddons, I picked the gothic sector fleet because of the daunts and dicts.

Yeah, but in the place of Duntlesses is SM strike Cruisers. They bloody rock! hehe. Ive got 4 of them in my fleet ATM as well as a Battlbarge. With those SM ships alone, ive now got 11 squadrons of attack craft, somthing i didnt have before. In my last list, i only had 4 squadrons of attack craft, and i got chewed up by chaos players with stupid amounts of AC. Also, the strike cruisers have that extra speed which, when paired with falchions, can get in behind the enemy fleet and stay in their rear arcs, the safezone.

I perfer the abilty to get SM ships and the Endevour light cruisers over dauntlesses. Also concerning the dominator, i can easily reserve in two of them. problem solved.

When used for what it was made for, the Overlord is a great ship. As said before, its not made for flying broadides, its a support ship. You send the dominator in for that job, while the OVerlord snipes from the side lines. Sure, its not better than a Lunar WRT to firepower, but its got the range of battleships, which in some cases, can be a great advantage.

And comparing IN to Chaos WRT to broadside power and speed and range is silly. Chaos is supposed to be better than IN in those areas. thats what the character of Chaos is. The IN has its armoured prows and torpedoes, not because they can be used for shooting the enemy while they close with them, so they can let out broadsides (although this is what most IN players do anyway, im not saying its bad) The IN character is its ships abilities to support other ships. ITs character is 'teamwork'. IN is no good as single ships, rather as a number of groups.

So calling the Overlord and tyrant bad because they dont stack up to Chaos ships isnt really ligit. You have to think in terms of a working group, not individiual ships. Pairing two Tyrants together gives you stg 20 WB @ 45cm, which is a great deal, even after the column shift. Now try pairing two Lunars. How much damage can they do @ 45cm? none. Thats why the Lunar was made for going in there and broadsideing it out, along with all the other cruisers (bar the carriers and battlecruisers) while the ships that come under 'support' sit back and....well.... support.

sometimes people get mis-guided, and have a support-only fleet. Ie. upgraded tyrants + overlords + carriers and they get beaten, becuse the enemy closed with them and killed them. There is a reason to this..... support ships sacrafice power for range. The most economical balance is to have a support ship per every 2 other ships. this way, you havea balance of firepower, and range. If used tactifully, you will win the day hands down.

concerning IN vs Chaos, I think Chaos were made to win in a broadside fight..... if IN players see this, it forces them to think a little more tactifully WRT their ordnance and support ships.

OK, here is what I can do for the mod actually. I can do concept art for buildings and such, nothing too detailed. I can do ideas for technologies and stuff. That is about it. By the way, what happened to all of those awesome pics of the skins and stuff by inert?

WRT? What's that? The thing about the overlord is that comparing it to chaos is valid. It has the same role as their ships, and even "fleet flavor" pales when you're trying to explain why the carnage has effectively the same firepower in that role for 55 points less. The torp nose isn't worth that much on a straight gunship, let alone a support ship that isn't going to use it. Also, what are you trying to say the torp nose is for if not for picking up incidental damage while closing and spitballing torpedoes to do some incidental damage? The only other thing the nose is really worth it is for keeping its nose from getting smashed in a very close gunfight, another place support ships don't go. Paying for that nose keeps all the Imperial ships overpriced. Somebody proposed a custom battlecruiser with a chaos cruiser prow and the reason people objected to it wasn't that it was overpriced, it was that it would invalidate the entire roster of IN battlecruisers, which all pay for that prow. It really serves them no purpose. If it came at a significant discount, then sure, it'd be fine, but it's not that great.

On the fleet choice issue, I have plenty of ships to bring in all the strike cruisers and Armageddon battlecruisers I want, but not to bring in the rather large gaggle of dauntlesses I want to keep ready to blast any flankers with a concentrated burst of lances, and some of my light cruiser tricks only work with dauntlesses, which have more arcs of decent firepower than a strike cruiser, which has to fit between two ships to get maximum impact. If I can just put the arc line between two ships in a formation, then I can get more firepower out of it than an equivalent weight of Strike cruisers, although I do want some t-hawks on hand for escort busting, so I'll probably add one eventually.

WRT= With Regards Too

Anyway, strike cruisers have sacraficed firepower to be able to keep up with the escorts. They also have bombardment cannons and T/Hawks and the 6+ armour which is the bane of ALL weapons batteries. It's so hard to shoot and hit them with WB's!!! Bombardment cannons are annoying little things, as they use the gunnery table like WB, but hit on a 4+ like lances. They also cause a critical on a 4+ too, which is why strike cruisers make the best cap-ship disablers and escort killers. (Escorts die on a critical hit, instantly) I say cap-ship disablers because they can start fires/take out weaponry/stuff the engines/smash the bridge with their critical hits, so by the time your REAL fleet gets there, it's easy pickings. Strike cruisers are by far my favourite ships, even with reduced firepower. I have a squadron of 5 of them, which once behind the enemy, where they cant be shot, can be the bane of many ships. especially Battleships.

"The thing about the overlord is that comparing it to chaos is valid. It has the same role as their ships, and even "fleet flavor" pales when you're trying to explain why the carnage has effectively the same firepower in that role for 55 points less. "

But thats it, Chaos is SUPPOSED to get range+firepower+speed for a cheap price tag. They are also supposed to get AC at a stupidly low price, which is why they have so much of it! I dont actually know how this is balanced out, the 6+ prows certainly dont make it even. All i know is, that to beat Chaos as the IN, its going to take luck and skill. They were naturally ment to beat the IN. So comparing IN ships to Chaos ships ISNT valid, because they will always get beaten. Comparing IN ships to IN ships, however, IS valid, because you can see the things that separate the support ships from the punch ships. The overlord has the most range for its size out of all the IN ships, which gives it the advantage of being able to support from afar. This is balanced, however, by the fact that it doesnt actually pack much of a punch, and is overpriced. But these negatives dont insta-designate this ship as useless! Players have different play styles, but in my play style, the Overlord has a place. I have one in my fleet, and in conjunction with my Vengance Grand cruiser, they can deliver a menacing punch from afar. So far, those two have never been destroyed (although occasionally crippled) in battle, mainly because of how far they sit back in comparisoon to my other ships, and have tallied a score of around ten kills. (although most of the time, these ships just finish off an already damaged enemy ship, done by my Lunars)

I know what lovely ships strike cruisers are, I was planning to reserve one in to my fleet. If I can bring three bc and a pair of THawks to bear against an enemy ship, then a crit is almost guaranteed and a fire arc down is very likely, and then it's the turn of the three dauntlesses it likes to chum with to take it out with their prow lances and lay into something else's unprotected prow/aft with their 12 wbs. Considering that my main opponent likes to carry a large carrier section spraying fire into the meelee, this leaves it open for the picking. If he doesn't, I'll just use that technique to lay into the rear of his group while my main ships crash into the front and let them all lay into the enemy with all their guns. Keep in mind this is just a plan, but it's proved pretty easy to use and adapt to the enemy's maneuvering. I generally have my support ships circle wide of the enemy and do damage wherever it'll do the most good.

Finally, just because I say something's overcosted doesn't mean I won't take it or think it's not a good ship. I have a Dictator of all things because I really like the ship. It's tough enough and surrounded by enough better armored ships that I'm likely to get quite a few turns where its AC hit home in its own turn when they get the first move. Even though those AC cost an arm and a leg, I find they're much more likely to do something big than the Mars' AC and very likely to clear the way for an 8-strong wave from my emperor to go kill something quickly. I prefer to have my ranged support come from ACs because I like them. I just think that the Overlord doesn't have the firepower to justify its price in most fleets, even when used just right, and with the IN steamroller of doom coming on in, the boost to 60 cm range isn't going to help its survivability as much as the fact that all the line cruisers are closer and pack more of a punch. Forgive me sir, but I am a cynic about that ship, and not even the "wrong fleet penalty" makes the price of it go well with me.

Ok, I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions and saying that you hate the ship. I also can't think of any other way to defend the Overlord, as I've used all my cards. The negatives seem to outweigh the posotives with that ship. So I'll just keep my opinion, and you can keep yours. I still stand by it, but i can't think of any way to justify it, so I guess you win. Lol. Now, back to the MOD, hows things coming?

I know this isnt on subject, but on the 2nd and the 3rd of August, Im going to be having 1500 point games with a friend I met on the forum. The first battle, Im going to take my space marine fleet, consisting of:

1 x battlebarge (Master of the Fleet +2 re-rolls) -550
4 x strike cruisers-580
4 x Nova frigates- 200
4 x Gladius frigates -180
= 1500 exactly.

He hasnt posted what his fleet will be yet, so im not sure, but he says he favours his chaos fleet. Does anyone have any suggestions to how I should approach this battle? Space Marines have the advantage of speed, armour and AC, but so does Chaos >< Any particular strategies I can use to win?

The battle on the 3rd, I will be using my Imperial Navy fleet, consisting of:

1 x Emperor Battleship (Solar Admiral)-515
1 x Mars Battlecruiser -270
1 x Armageddon Battlecruiser -245
2 x Lunar Cruisers -360
3 x Falchion Escorts-105
=1495

I had hoped to improve on my last battle (where I was swamped by enemy AC and lost all my escorts, which served to give him extra victory points) and feild more AC (12 squadrons total) along with less escorts, and more capital ships. I plan on steamrolling him with the Lunar/Lunar/Armageddon group, firing torps at point blank range and using the combined stg 8 lances and stg 18 WB to be my 'punch'. The falchions will hang back with the carrier group and provide rear-guard as well as take the brunt of enemy ordnance for the emperor and mars, who will be supporting my steamrollers with a stream of AC. The Emperor (with its combined broadside of stg 16WB @ 60cm) will also provide gunnery support, and the Mars will be popping away with its artillery-the nova cannon. It sounds alright to me, but I wouldnt mind some tactical help...... if its not too much to ask. Also, another problem I had last game was that I split my forces, which is exactly whats hapeneing here. They got isolated, and, unable to support each other, were slaughtered (ironicly by slaughter class cruisers) So do you think it is a good idea making two separate groups? a support group and a punch group? or should they remain as one?

I know this is off subject, im sorry, but i really need some help bringing this guy down.... He was playing tabletop before i was born, and playing BFG since i was 5. So he has much more experience than me, this is going to be difficult..... ><

Mod's going well, I'm still fussing with the test version to get everything right, and it's going okay. My sprained ankle is finally mostly okay, so my dad's dragging me around to get in a summer's worth of "recreation" jammed in to the remaining time before I get to college (HOLY GOD I ONLY HAVE 3 WEEKS LEFT!), so I'm not able to get in as much work as I'd like. I think Prezo's got some models emitterated, but I'm not sure on that because convertXSI had a cow after we forgot texturing. Prezo, I'll try to be online when you're awake to see if you've made any progress, but I make no guarantees (I had a very early morning). Still, It's going well, and I think we're going to have a very good mod when we're done.

I'm not sure on the space marines fleet one, the ships are unfamiliar to me, and so is the usage. The Battle Barge is odd, and I bet you have more idea how to use it than I do, but you might want to try linebreaking with it like you would with an IN cruiser, but instead of getting ships on both broadsides, go for the front of his fleet so you can keep most of it abeam and stay an impossible target to hurt particularly badly. This will let you get most of your firepower from it while you keep your THawks on attacks of opportunity duty and your main battle clump of strike cruisers dance in and hit any openings your thawks manage to create. Remember, lances are very dangerous to you (cuts through that armor you paid a ton for), so target enemy ships in order of descending lance power, even with your thawks so you can shut down his ability to hurt you. Finally, Strike Cruisers need to be grouped with something to really hurt an enemy cruiser badly. If you group two or even better, three, they'll be able to really slam an enemy cruiser quickly and all those crits will keep it out of the fight for a very long time. You might want to group three to do that and use the last one to kill escorts that try to flank your battlebarge or generally get too troublesome with its THawks and BC, which are all great against escorts.

The IN game, I don't really have enough familiarity with that kind of fleet to recommend much other than getting a different admiral because the solar admiral is next to useless on an Emperor (which gives +1 Ld) when you can get a reroll and a reserve cobra for your falchion squadron (they don't conflict too badly) with the points. If you keep your fleet together until you get to where you need to turn in with your punch cruisers, then you're not going to be flanked too badly. If you can hit (one of) the slaughter(s) with an Emperor sized wave of bombers, it'll help a great deal, because it'll be very likely to cripple it and give your support ships a good chance of defeating the attack before it hits. Remember the slaughters need to be more careful about closing than imperial ships because of their soft prows, so if you can prove your emperor's AC will toast them if they don't close quickly, they'll be dead either way, so it should push them into your waiting guns. That's all plan though.

Hope you salvage some good ideas from that.