research and economic treaties

With a research treaty you get some extra RP's per turn, and extra money with an econ treaty. It's not much, though, and I'd say it's mostly good for establishing stronger diplomatic ties than for getting extra research or money. In my experience, the research you get is just a few points per turn/per treaty, and you definitely don't get any free techs with it.

I'm pretty sure that when you give out your research and econ treaties, you don't actually lose any research or money per turn.

So, I usually try to get research treaties from just about everyone. They're much easier to get than econ treaties. I give a treaty to the two most threatening races. It helps some, but the AI won't hesitate from breaking them if it really wants to attack you.

Research treaties gives you a small bonus of research points, which really isn't very effective unless you play with all 9 and get all of their treaties, otherwise you just get like 8 bonus points per turn, when your producing like 100. And economic treaties give you extra cash per turn. (when I say you, i mean whoever is on the receiving end of the treaty, because it is not two way).

If you have another race's research treaty, you get a bonus of 10% of their current research output (at no penalty to them) and a similar effect from the economic treaty. It fluctates as their spending and income does. Typically, these treaties are good for either getting relations up or as a huge bargaining chip in a negotiation... the AIs will part with a great deal in order to get one of these, though the current draconian tech trading scheme means the deal is a little one sided in their favour.

Well, I wouldn't say that those treaties are worthless.
I'm about to finish my first game at suicidal where the Drengin were absolurtely superior in every regard during the first year ... beside diplomacy.
About after 1 year we ecchanged research treaties and that must have pumped up my research by ~50% (they had about 4-5 times the research output of me)
After about 1.5 years we made an econ treaty and that one meant that I got 700bc from them per were, when my own tax-.income was just 1900.

beside making friends with the totally dominating force in the galaxy at this time the ecomic value of BOTH treaties probably decided the game to my favour.

And the other thing about treaties: if you declare war on a civ you have a treaty with, no one "trusts" you for the rest of the game (or at least for a very long time).

Yes, research treaties are not quite worthless, but i will admit, they could or should be a little better. In the example listed above, though, look at it from another angle. Instead of getting 8 TP when you are producing 100 TP, you are getting an 8% boost in research. Thats like having an extra point or two for racial bonuses when starting the game and putting it in research. And over a longer game, 8% is huge.

Hi!

AFAIK bonuses AIs get at higher difficulty levels are not included into the TPs from treaty. So when you see the suicidal AI producing 1000 TP, you'll get only 20 from the research treaty, because its base research is only 200, and 800 TPs are suicidal bonus.

BR, Iztok

Research treaties, if acquired at the right time, can really help your empire out. In the early game, get research treaties from as many empires as possible. They're usually in a big financial hole, and will part with these for peanuts. Later, when they're big empires, you get significant research boost. I've had games where I'd set my research slider to zero, because my research was only 30-40% of the total research (the rest coming from the other empires), and I really needed the money elsewhere.

Where this really shines is with minor empires. Unlike the AI, these actually are doing significant research, thus you get a big boost from them. In a recent game, I had eight of these empires in the map, four or so nearby. Each was giving me 20+ research points per turn. My empire at the time, with a 40% expediture, was only able to generate about 30 research points (this was early in the game). Since I couldn't compete, I diverted that 40% expenditure to military production to build more colony ships faster. This let me get a big leg-up on the other empires.

Once you get big, the benefit is much smaller. But getting those crucial techs early on during the planet-grabbing phase can mean the difference between being small and bankrupt with unhappy citizens, and being big, with cash rolling in, and happier citizens. Those early techs are cheap, thus that extra research from treaties can make a huge difference.

I find the AI values my research treaty much more than my economic treaty. I usually trade my research treaty with the most powerful AI for its research treaty or in exchange for it going to war with a powerful AI near me that is hostile. When playing on suicide it is critical that you keep the AIs fighting each other. If an AI declares war on the Altarians then it is also declaring war on all good AIs. Have a constructor waiting near a starbase mining a galactic resource, owned by an AI at war. When the starbase is destroyed then claim it. Also, after an AI clears out another's planetary defenders you can claim them with your nearby troop transports.

So far I have experienced the opposite. Economy treaties are more valued than research treaties. Maybe it depends on the difficulty (playing on normal), or how you are doing in comparison to the AI.

But I agree, treaties are very good for diplomatic reasons. Also, each race can only have one 'outbound' treaty, so the more you get, the less the AIs can establish between them.

In my experience, the AI values econ treaties as almost worthless in the early game, but they value them above anything else in the late game. So, if you save yours up or get it back after a war, it can be worth thousands of BC.

The treaties are like 10% I believe. The nice thing about them is they operate like instant trade, improving relations.

Since I play with lots of minor civs, and the value of the treaties generally increases over time, therefore I try to get their research treaties at first contact.

Economic treaties are a great way to snowball an economy that is already highly cash rich (from trade for instance). I'll buy up economic treaties with cash, because it's instant cash in return. Basically it's like buying stock in the other civs.

ok so this may be a stupid question... but im gonna ask anyway cause it bugs the crap out of me. Why is it that some times i dont even have the option to ask for an economic or research treaty. some times i can ask but not offer, and other times i can offer but not ask... and other time i can do neither. this is really frustrating to me. it seems that needing the alliance tech has nothing to do with it. is there another tech im missing or is there somthing deeper in the relations mechenism im just not getting yet? Thanks.

You only have one of each treaty to give - once you've dedicated your economic treaty to the Yor, for example, you no longer have an econ treaty to offer someone else. Hope that's what you were asking.

each race has only one treaty of econ and one treaty of research to trade, once it is traded, it won't show up on the trading options. So if you've given research to another race, you won't be able to offer it anymore. If the race you want a research treaty from has already traded it, it won't show up....simple as that...certainly not deeper...hah.