super manipulator needs a bit of a nerf

from GalCiv2 Forums
ok so I been playing gigantic maps with max races, i use all custom races ,these i have found off the "library " from this website.

i have found that the custom races with the super manipulator ability seem to cause a bit too much chaos for my liking.

most of the time by the 2nd year they have managed to pay about 6 races to war on me and everyone else.

so i want to change this , Is it possible to simply change the values for that one super ability so that it does not cause so much trouble

perhaps it could be modified so that there is a limit on the amout of wars that begin from that races paying others to war ? if not i will just eliminate that ability altogether

modding
6,714 views 11 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Unfortunately the Super Abilities are hardcoded, so you cannot edit them.

Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
maybe you could try using the negative race bonus mod (general pants i believe) to give the race in question some diplo minus points... this would of course also affect other diplomatic relations
Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Or just don't use races with Super Manipulator.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
most of the time by the 2nd year they have managed to pay about 6 races to war on me and everyone else.


Excellent... then its working as it should.

super manipulator needs a bit of a nerf


Look, either learn to live with, or don't play with them.

I remember reading something on another website where it said something like...

by Paper
Rock is fine, nerf Scissors.

In some games, not everyone is expected to win at everything. If scissors couldn't cut paper, there wouldn't be any reason (if you wanted to win) to play anything but paper in the game of rock, paper, scissors.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
by Paper
Rock is fine, nerf Scissors.

I always thought scissors was a bit overpowered....
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
firstly I do not complain when things work as intended. but this ability does not balance. furthermore only my custom races abuse it, the drath on the other hand do horribly with it. secondly who are you to defend that which even yourself cannot explain . go troll posts somewhere like the barbie website where you will fit in .
nuff said??!!

back to my original post now.

this is an exploit that i use often and it is not at all balanced. the cost of paying someone to wage war, even on a small scale is small compared to the cost of actually funding such war.

now when this said race pays its paltry sum to every other race and has them wage war against one another it places itself in a definitive advantage , the likes of which not one other so called super ability can even begin to compare to.

the simple solution would be to make the cost of bribing a race to war somewhat more comparable to the cost of waging it .

that is all that needs to be done.

the previous troller obviously has no idea of the way in which this ability can be so horrendously abused so here is an example.

simply do not spend on military, spend solely on social and research. fly up the diplomacy tree and always stay ahead in diplomacy.
scan your relatiions and find two races who do not like you much then pay them to war each other. . over and over with every race , by starting and targeting the hostile races you pretty much prevent any desires to attack you.
by having all races at war but you you can zoom ahead in tech and economy far surpassing your opponents . when you feel far enough advanced . build your war maching and conquer . all the while keeping your opponents focused on each other.

pure cheese ,plain and simple no skill required
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
simply do not spend on military, spend solely on social and research. fly up the diplomacy tree and always stay ahead in diplomacy.
scan your relatiions and find two races who do not like you much then pay them to war each other. . over and over with every race , by starting and targeting the hostile races you pretty much prevent any desires to attack you.
by having all races at war but you you can zoom ahead in tech and economy far surpassing your opponents . when you feel far enough advanced . build your war maching and conquer . all the while keeping your opponents focused on each other.


That is, in essence, how Super Manipulator works. You can always disable super abilities if you think they don't balance.

I'd suggest you also read the Super Diplomat AAR, it shows that any race with a focus on diplomacy can have this advantage, not only Manipulators.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
About the Part "only custom race abuse it, the Drath not"... Maybe you could try to assign assign your custom race another AI... the AI used by the Drath or something...
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I haven't noticed Super Manipulator being a problem, really, but I do wonder about its efficacy in comparison to Super Diplomat. Doesn't the latter's diplomacy bonus effectively provide the same ability to manipulate other races into war but while also providing so much more? Why would anyone choose SM over SD? Without seeing the numbers, I can't say for sure, but it does seem a bit odd to me, as each super ability should be balanced w.r.t. all other super abilities, as much as is possible.
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
true enough, superdiplomat probably is more effective. furthermore i usually play on tough or higher diff settings and set my opponents cpu usage to 100% so maybe thats why they abuse more than drath .also drath seems to have horrid diplo skill. but either way. the main drive of this post is that bribing to war is just too darn cheap not to use every single game. so I would like to get a concensus here from people whether they agree the (Cost To Bribe War is Too Cheap Compared To The Cost Of War??)or disagree

Furthermore since I have it on my mind . At what level difficulty does the AI try to keep its mining bases within its influence more persistantley?
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
At what level difficulty does the AI try to keep its mining bases within its influence more persistently?

I've only played DA on suicide. I've only seen the AI mining asteroids within its zone of influence. Mining stations have only rebelled after I start conquering planets causing the influence zones to change. No new algorithms are introduced above level tough, only bonuses.