Mumblefratz Mumblefratz

Give Us Barabbas

Give Us Barabbas

Not quite sure what this topic will actually accomplish but I've been thinking about this for awhile and it seems that perhaps I'm not the only one.

Recently we had a thread where we were accepting nominees for a couple of open positions on the Metaverse Council. I was somewhat surprised to not only have Evil Stormbringer's name suggested but to also see that he had a reasonable amount of support. However, as a banned character it was clearly not appropriate to accept his name in nomination, however I would like to bring up the topic of another chance for Evil Stormbringer for general discussion and see how folks feel about it.

I want to preface this with my take on the how and why people get banned. I also want to state that all of this is merely my own personal opinion.

Starting out on these forums no one knows you and you know no one else and so it's usual that folks start out posting a bit tentatively. Over time people become better known and more comfortable and there is a tendency to "let things hang out" a bit more. Also over time a "forum persona" tends to develop and people just seem to "go with the flow" and simply perpetuate the stereotype.

The other thing is how you tend to perceive others here on the forum. It takes some period of time before you begin to notice specific personalities. I find myself vaguely recognizing someone’s name or avatar long before I begin to start remembering whether I’ve in general agreed or disagreed with them in the past. Over time, impressions are made that categorize folks into people that you like or people that you dislike. Often you can’t even remember specific instances just vague overall generalizations of whether you feel certain folks are being a d*ckhead or whether you feel they’re cool. Of course in other instances there may be very clear instances where direct offense was given and these tend to stick out in your mind. Even in these cases there can be a whole range of mitigating circumstances. Perhaps you just caught them at a bad time. Perhaps you inadvertently pressed all their buttons and to them their response was justified. In any case I’m not trying to justify abuse, I’m just trying to point out that it’s usually not as one sided as it seems to those directly involved. Usually to an unbiased observer these things come down to he said/she said and the matter of who is right and who is wrong just really doesn’t matter.

The bottom line of all this verbiage is that a persons persona is *not* the person and that how anyone feels about anyone else is often more a matter of perception than one of reality.

Still going along here with my interpretation of why people get banned, I think it’s more due to a long term general perception of a particular person’s behavior rather than the result of any specific incident. Of course there always is a "straw that broke the camel’s back" incident that actually "causes" the banning. The conversations that I’ve had with folks that have been banned usually have centered around not understanding why they were banned because similar previous behaviors by themselves or others haven’t resulted in a banning so why should this one. The answer is that at some point the perception of "the powers that be" reaches a tipping point and that’s pretty much the end of it. There’s no argument and no reasoning that can be made. People simply have had enough.

So what is it that I’m trying to accomplish here. I think it’s no secret that I like Evil Stormbringer. I certainly don’t agree with many of the things that he’s said. I certainly don’t try to justify his behavior to those he’s offended. However, even when he’s been an @$$ (and it must be admitted by even his strongest supporters that he can be a major one at times) I’ve always been able to see the person beneath the persona. When pressed or otherwise forced to look at his own behavior with a critical eye I’ve seen him able to laugh at himself. It’s also very clear to me that he loves this game and has the best interest of the community at heart, things that I hope even his fiercest detractors would be forced to admit as well.

I’d like to see Evil Stormbringer be given one last chance. Yes, I know that he’s been given several "final" chances already, but that doesn’t change my opinion. I would hope that those that support him and this idea would respond to this thread and express their support as diplomatically and responsibly as possible. I’d also like to see that even those that he’s offended could perhaps find a little forgiveness in their own heart and respond as well. Judge not lest ye be judged.

Finally, assuming a reasonable response to this thread, I’d like to see Stardock respond to the will of the community, along with a reasonable expectation of better future behavior on his part, and give Evil Stormbringer one more final chance at redemption.
46,239 views 44 replies
Reply #26 Top
Well, I'm sure that there are ways to disguise yourself assuming there was nothing actually illegal going on. If there was anything actually illegal going on then I'm sure anyone’s real name, address and phone number could easily be subpoenaed from the ISP/workplace/whatever. But ignoring true illegal activity, I’m still sure there are ways that the network savvy could ID someone.

I also don't think it's a good idea to encourage folks to believe that they can be totally anonymous and therefore free from worry about consequences, because clearly there are consequences.

Certainly IP logging can be used and if you’re not otherwise both knowledgeable and careful then this can be one method of discovering an otherwise banned character. I have no doubt that there are other methods that can be used of which I am not aware.

I had been trying to avoid answering the question specifically in this case, but I’d rather be specific than have others think that this is an easy thing to do. I don’t know exactly how, but I do know that this was attempted in this case and was quickly found out and the new character banned within days.

Clearly my preferred outcome of this would be to get ES reinstated now or failing that sometime in the future (assuming true remorse was shown). However failing that (or even if eventually successful) this should stand as a lesson to others. Suggesting that true anonymity is possible helps no one here.
Reply #27 Top
Yes they can find out and yes they would ban the new character as well. They would be silly not to since otherwise what would be the point of banning someone.


What's the point?? ahem well the punishment is that it costs you money if you wan't to rejoin so that is the incentive to behave better. So in consideration of that fact i do not see why Stardock would need to persecute anyone for rejoining after bying the game again???
Reply #28 Top

Yes they can find out and yes they would ban the new character as well. They would be silly not to since otherwise what would be the point of banning someone.


What's the point?? ahem well the punishment is that it costs you money if you wan't to rejoin so that is the incentive to behave better. So in consideration of that fact i do not see why Stardock would need to persecute anyone for rejoining after bying the game again???


I guess that how you look at what you been Ban means ??? to some if you been ban the it does not matter if you bought 10 copies you still would be ban....So don`t be bad in the first place
Reply #29 Top
well in life if you do the wrong thing, you pay a fine and then go on your way. If you keep parking in the wrong place then it will cost you, but so long as you keep paying, nothing bad apart from loosing money, ever happens. you will always be allowed to keep on driving.

My whole point is this.... once you pay the price your all squared up with the house, only if you do somthing wrong again then your past record will make judges less linient.... and so it should be with stardock forum.
Reply #30 Top
My whole point is this.... once you pay the price your all squared up with the house, only if you do somthing wrong again then your past record will make judges less linient.... and so it should be with stardock forum.


No disrespect to those who decide on banning people, but I entirely agree with Mystik on this point. However, I don't expect that anyone who is banned will pay for the game again just to get back on the forum. If he/she does, that shows real commitment, which absolutely should be taken into account when rethinking about a ban. And this goes even for those whom I absolutely dislike who have been banned, not just for any one person. To recommit to the company and the forum by buying the game again certainly shows that one is ready to behave differently. If one doesn't change one's behavior, then that can be dealt with quickly.

We have to recognize, though, that this is a private forum, in the sense that it's run by a private company, and so the rules are set by that company. I don't see Stardock as a tyrannical entity, by any means, and so I have no problem with their decisions at this point. As a free individual, as always, I reserve my right to change my opinion based upon facts. As of now, though, the facts look to me as though Stardock has acted quite rationally and fairly.

Reply #31 Top
that shows real commitment, which absolutely should be taken into account when rethinking about a ban.


the facts look to me as though Stardock has acted quite rationally and fairly.

Both excellent and valid points.

I still hold out the hope that the passage of some time combined with an expression of true remorse and a realistic probablity of better behavior would warrent an eventual reconsideration.
Reply #32 Top
Happy day after Canada day. As for banning, well unfortunately I believe its a rock and a hard place. I personally would like to see a few people back as well. Reading some threads makes me bite the keyboard as I try and think of a response to ignorant comments. In this day and age you have to be politcally correct, which I personally think in B.S. However you must keep it P.G. 13 which nowadays means nothing as 13 year olds are having kids. The problem could be that some are soft skinned and will complain to Stardock on the drop of a hat. As for others, they could not care because they have been called everything under the sun by better. As for banning for a year, that would be a joke, and unfortunately this is not a democracy.

And if somebody insults you, it may not be intended that way. But some who get warnings(You all know who you are) do as I and bite the keyboard.
Reply #33 Top
ahem well the punishment is that it costs you money if you wan't to rejoin so that is the incentive to behave better. So in consideration of that fact i do not see why Stardock would need to persecute anyone for rejoining after bying the game again???


Unless the case merits specifically doing so, a ban does not typically preclude one from updating the game and continuing to play--just from using the forums. Forum registration is free, in any case.
Reply #34 Top
Can anyone spell out what was his "crime" he get banned for ?
I mean what so evil he did or said that forced SD moderators that usually very tolerant to ban him ?
Without knowing this it's hard to make an opinion.
Reply #35 Top
Unless the case merits specifically doing so, a ban does not typically preclude one from updating the game and continuing to play--just from using the forums. Forum registration is free, in any case.

I thought this would normally be the case although I wasn't sure. I think in this case (again I'm not totally sure) there was an explicit refund and invalidation of serial number followed by another purchase of the game (indicating at least some perseverance and love of the game) and the registration of another character that was then banned as well.

If so then it seems to me that at least the second character would not have had a rebate and invalidation of serial number and could be used to update the game and even perhaps be able to submit metaverse games (would this part be true?). I would think that anyone interested in trying to follow a path toward eventual redemption would indeed continue to quietly play the game and even (if allowed) continue to submit metaverse games.

I’m not asking for any explicit acknowledgement that any such path to redemption exits, but as I mentioned before I would have to expect that an honest expression of remorse, the passage of some time and a reasonable expectation of better behavior would have to count for something, particularly in light of an obvious love of the game. I would also point out that it would take a particularly large man to swallow one’s pride and even attempt to walk such a path with no assurance that it would result in any future benefit.
Reply #36 Top
Mumblefratz


I like the way you speak, you have that concept of speaking to best achieve a long term positive result rather than indulging in short term speaking, which is how most people speak.
Reply #37 Top
Strombringer was banned? Where have I been?
Reply #38 Top
Strombringer was banned? Where have I been?


Yea, i was suprised to hear this news as well. Especially since I did not particularly remember him being all that controversial, i would not have picked him as somone on the edge of getting banned. My guess would be that he must have used one too many swear words probabl, i mean thats probably the quickest way for a fairly normal person to get banned?
Reply #39 Top
Just my opinion. I have no idea of the circumstances surrounding SB's demise. But, I would suggest that the original sin is not what caused him to be banned. Rather, it was a refusal to accept the authority of the moderators when they approached him for his original sin. Being faced with an unrepentant citizen, they were left with only the one alternative in order to retain their necessary authority.

I don't mean to speak for the moderators, and I don't; but that is the way I would imagine it happening. And, it does fit SB's personality.

Kryo, if I have overstepped myself, please accept my apology.

SB seemed to be a great guy. Most folks here appear to be nice. But everyone, I don't care who you are, has to answer to someone in authority over them at some point in their life. How that point is handled goes a ways in defining your character.

As for me, I answer to everybody. Everybody is my boss. Makes life very simple.
Reply #40 Top
Everybody is my boss.


What if you became your own boss?

Reply #41 Top
What if you became your own boss?


I tried that once after my divorce. Man, what a pain all that responsibility and such. I had to go find another woman to boss me around.   
Reply #42 Top
What if you became your own boss?


I tried that once after my divorce. Man, what a pain all that responsibility and such. I had to go find another woman to boss me around.   


Tsk tsk tsk. Have you always been the under dog? You need a promotional speech......to bad I'm not the one to tell it!
Reply #43 Top

Everybody is my boss.


What if you became your own boss?




Your own boss at what? Typically, that means you have your own business. You think you can boss around your customers? Good luck with that! You'll soon find your coffers empty as well as your belly. You might find yourself rich one day, however, and fall under the illusion that you don't need anybody or anything. On that day, you might throw back your shoulders and claim you answer to no one. You would be wrong, however. You always serve something or someone else, no matter who you are, no matter how rich you might be, no matter how powerful you perceive yourself.

And, on the chance that you might just be acting facetiously ... my children would say, "your face is a boss."

Whatever that means.
Reply #44 Top
Rather, it was a refusal to accept the authority of the moderators when they approached him for his original sin. Being faced with an unrepentant citizen, they were left with only the one alternative in order to retain their necessary authority.


You make it sound a bit like a power trip for the moderators? It is not a question of authority but basic enforcement of forum rules.

Authority infers that moderators have the power to order you to come and do their washing and sweep their floors or get banned. I don't think that is the case???