Those are DIFFERENT planets, it may happen there, but we might be able to stop it here if we put our minds to it.

I think the main problem is that people don't want to aknowlege that it is true. And the big polititions say it isn't to get easy votes by agreeing with your sub-conscience that is telling you, "NO! this can't be happening!"

I don't like the fact that my race will die off in a decade or two because the earth is heating up as an effect of my race's own actions.

When people hear a scientist say, "the earth will be consumed by water and kill us all, but we can stop it", they will not hear anything after "kill us all". Instead, they will try to prove that scientist wrong so they can feel safe, even though they are not. But, when that scientist is proveen right (by the big title wave engulfing California... and New York), they will be too busy trying to survive to hear the scientist say "I told you so."

I'm sure that the tital waves will not kill everyone, but it might be a good experience for mankind, like a cleansing or something, er... not that I want it to happen.

I've said enough.

  

i agree that global warming is happening what i disagree with is how much of it is our fault

Whether our fault or not we should atleast try to stop it from happening. Allthough i believe that science will be our saviour. If we dont do anything scientists will come up with easy solution one day or another. Put your faith on science, who knows what miracles they come up with in future.

sorry my faith is in god. if he thinks it should be warmer then it should be warmer.

you want to control weather world wide and we can't even control it in a local area

Actualy we can. Farmers now use a method called cloud seeding. It helps the clouds produce more rain. Alowing for better crops.

That's amazing. I wonder if god gave them that knowlege, or some scientific type research on weather patterns and the water cycle?...

I'll take the second one.

that's fine for you, but the rest of us who live on the planet earth would like our great grand children to live here too. if you want to put things in the hands of god, stop everything you do, live in a cave, and then see if your dinner miraculously appears at your door three times a day. if it doesn't, it's a sure sign god must want you to starve to death.

"god helps those who help themselves."

things i can do. i do. things i can't do like change the weather, which is what you are talking about doing, i don't worry about.


as for seeding clouds, yes we can seed clouds and make it rain, but it seldom if ever rains where we want, or how much we want.

that's incredibly selfish, immature and irresponsible. maybe you can't change the entire planet's patterns by yourself, but you can make a difference. you can vote for greener candidates, and you can purchase greener products. you can educate yourself so that you're at least more aware of the impact you have on the world, and when possible minimize the negative or maximize the poisitive impacts.

the environmental predicament is a lot bigger than just global warming. aquifer levels across the world are falling because we're tapping fresh water faster than it can replenish itself. we're already using pretty much all of the earth's arable land and productive ocean, and depleting that rapidly. population is expected to hit about 8 billion by 2020 and 10 billion by 2050. moreover, while that happens, many nations that are currently poor will continue to grow, using yet more resources.

estimates of extinction rates suggest that after humans "appeared" (evolved or were put here), the extinction rate of land animals increased between 500 and 1000 percent.

so yea, keep your head in the sand. lord knows there will be plenty of it in another 100 years at this rate.

NASA's boss stated that there was nothing we could do.

and he wouldn't trust any man who said he could.


as for green candidates guess what you burn corn juice instead of dinosaur juice your still polluting.

has nothing to do with global warming

who, Dr. Michael Griffin?

is he an ecologist? is he a meteorologist? is he a geologist? is he a climatologist?

no, he's an administrator and an engineer. it doesn't matter if he trusts anyone because his opinion is no more valid than yours or mine. without a career of research in a field actually related to the question at hand, i have no way to know if he's any more or less informed than i am, though i'm pretty sure he and i are both more informed than you.

plus, Bush put him in his current office, which tells me a lot about what he'll say in public and what he won't.



okay, GE's "think green go yellow" campaign has little to do with voting, and i never said it was better than pentrolium fuels. frankly if we switched all engines over, we'd be worse off due to rapid soil erosion and the extreme amount of water vapor (another greenhouse gas) that we'd be emitting. the real answer is a renewable and low-impact energy source, for example solar power or controlled fusion.

GE's campaign has more to do with cashing in on their investement in government-subsidized corn (also the reason corn syrup is used as a sweetener instead of sugar in so many american products).



did you not see me write, "the environmental predicament is a lot bigger than just global warming" in my last post? are you spastically responding one sentence at a time, or do you just like to appear foolish?

and a politicians opinion(who claims to have started the internet when he was 16 or younger) is more valid than an engineers.

There aren't as many volcanoes out there. And they can't release that much CO2!

"Your quoting a source that once claimed Harry potter lived at the same address as the Prime minister of england."

For the record, Wikipedia can be editd by anyone, so the above "information" was likely added as a joke.

RANT MODE
I keep hearing that a large concern of global warming is that it causes the polar ice caps to melt which will increase the ocean's level and flood coastal areas.

Now I agree that scientific data has shown that the Arctic ice caps have decreased in size (i.e. they are meltinggggg). However the ice caps in Antarctica are growing, again scientific data, done by the British who maintain science research teams down there.

Now here is a simple experiment: get glass of water and put some ice cubes in it. Mark the level of the water. Let the ice cubes melt. Mark the level of the water.

Importance of this experiment, the Arctic (melting) ice cap is free floating (i.e. no land underneath), ice cubes floating in the glass of water.

Point 2: Antarctica has 90% of the worlds glaciers and it growing (hmmm....). Now scientist do say that IF the ice on Antarctica melted it COULD raise the sea level by AS MUCH AS (i.e. upper limit, but not necessarily the actual amount could be less, most likely less) 65 meter (that is significant but not the end of the world).

Point 3: It is predicated by the global warmists that the temperature rises up to (again upper limit, I would love to see what the lower limit of said model gives) 10 degrees C. This leaves most of Antarctica well below freezing. Over 500 years it could result in an increase of sea level of up to 1 meter (significant).
http://www.antarctica.ac.uk/met/jds/weather/weather.htm

Now, I am a math major, not a scientist, but in the reports I can find the margin of error is not given but the reports are careful to say that the numbers given are the extreme. From statitisics extremes rarely happen.

END RANT MODE

Wow. And just because 99.99% of the people in Medieval times 'knew' that the Earth was flat, it was, I quote, 'Its gotta be true'.

Very convincing argument, Zman.

As has been stated before, the other planets' temperatures are increasing at the same rate as us. Guys, there are no factories there. This points towards warming being from solar cycles.

Two, if atmospheric C02 was warming the Earth, then scientists would expect the atmosphere to warm at a quicker rate than the ground. That is not happening.

Three, the Vostok ice-core sample shows that C02 levels rise with or after (by a thousand years or less) temperature. Therefore, C02 cannot affect temperature... if anything, it is the opposite.

Fourth, in the High Middle Ages a period arose known as the Medieval Warm Period. This was HOTTER than even the most extreme scientists predict we will get to in the next long while. There were NO factories back then, so obviously C02 does not affect the temperature. In fact, this warm period allowed the Vikings to establish colonies in Greenland and Iceland.

Yes, the Earth is warming, albeit rather slowly. This is quite understandable, because in the 1800s the period was 'The Little Ice Age'. This was a small mini-ice age that sparked 'Frost Fairs' everywhere. We are coming out of that period.
BUT, we are not affecting that.

PLEASE, read these:
http://www.inhofe.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressRoom.Speeches&ContentRecord_id=fa9ec4f1-8e88-44d9-9133-2c97905be3e6&Region_id=&Issue_id=
http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/trends/co2/vostok.htm
http://www.john-daly.com/hockey/hockey.htm

One analogy i've always liked is the glass with water and ice cubes in it. If over time, the ice cube melts...during that melting process, your drink stays pretty cold right?

What happens when the ice is done melting? Is that water still cold? How quickly will it heat up then? What will this new water-temperature do to our oceans/world?

Lets not consider the salt content, etc etc etc of the oceans too...

-Fernando

I would be interested to see if anyone could challenge my points.

Hello?

Anyone?

Until then, I win.

We have this same debate in Canada, everyone here blames the western provinces... because we happen to produce most of the oil that's keeping the rest of this welfare state out of recession. Incidently we also don't vote for the socialists that everybody else up here does either. But the fact of the matter is nothing is going to happen about global warming because NOBODY wants to do anything about it themselves. Probably the best way to reduce CO2 emissions would be to get everyone on public transit of some sort. The only way that is going to happen is if the financial cost of a gallon or litre of gasoline reflected the damage that burning that gasoline ALLEGEDLY does to the planet. But every time the price of gas goes up a nickle or a dime everyone gets on their high horse and demands that the same government that they demand "fix" global warming do something about high feul prices.

As for whether people are causing global warming or not it is interesting to note that astronomers have noticed increased solar activity from the sun. Also the surface temperature of many other planets in the solar systems seem to be increasing as well. However there is little doubt that large oil companies and vehichle manfacturers are highly resistant to changing the status quo.

Some of the more alarmist proponents of the theory thant humanity is causing global warming indicate that unless we achieve a 95% reduction in emissions in 7 years we will do serious harm to the planet. If this is true and I do not believe that it is, we need to move our focus away from calling everyone names and pointing fingers. We are obviously not going to be able to cut 95% of emissions without the complete collapse of modern society. It seems to me we should be focusing on making what cuts we can with existing technology, and researching new technology. As well we should be finding ways to mitigate potential damage as well as preparing to evacuate costal areas.

As for the theory that melting ice caps will cause sea levels to rise, put an ice cube into a glass of water and watch it melt. Note that the glass does not become any more full. The ice cube displaces and equvalent amount of water as it's mass. Thus when it melts it's mass decreases and it displaces a correspondingly smaller amount of water. I believe rising sea levels would be caused by increased run off from mountains and glaciers.

What a bunch of crap.

No doubt anyone can find anything on the internet somewhere with some vague semblance of authority to "prove" any possible harebrained point that they want to.

I'm certainly glad that we here in the GalCiv2 forum have the knowledge and expertise to solve this weighty issue if only we could reach some consensus agreement. I'm sure I'll sleep better knowing that a consortium of science fiction game players is now on the case.

What a load of crap. Move this discussion to where it belongs, some idiot savant blog.

Ignor the Mumblefratz dude. But I will try to make this quick(well not really). In fact I'll make this very,very long.



I'll challenge you. First of all 'The Little Ice Age' wasn't really a 'period'. It was caused by a super-volcanic eruption. And it's 'period' ended a long time ago.

If you were to watch the science channel, on one of its global warming specials, they should a graph of the temperatures of the planet, over the past few million years or so. The line on the graph was relatively steady. It went slightly up or down depending on if there was an ice age going on. Right until the dawn of the industial revolution. Temperatures began to steadily rise. And in the 20th century(1900s)the worldwide temps began to climb dramaticly fast. On the graph there was a blue line, showing the actual temps. A green line showing what the temps should be, just by volcanic activity. And a red line, starting at the industrial revolution, showing what the temps should be just because of human activity. The blue and green line stay close together, along with the red line rising slightly. But all of the sudden the green line keeps its course and the red and blue line begin to climb. This means that volcanic activity is not causing global warming. And leaves humans as the cause.

Mind you that many other factors are most likely contributng. But there is no doubt that humans aren't hurting the enviroment in any way. And even if we weren't the cause. That doesn't mean that we cannnot help the Earth.

Mann's Hockey Stick Graph...

A disgrace to science. The spike at the end was surface temperature... the steady line was growing-season tree rings... in Tasmania.

www.john-daly.com/hockey/hockey.htm