What would make GC2 a classic?

- Customizable key-controls. You cant change the CTRL functions, or change the keys used to scroll the screen, etc

- Simplified Ship building. While i LOVE th ship-building capabilities, eventually it gets combersome and confusing to look at DOZENS of available ships. Most "classic" game, are more simple. and i have no ideas on how tofix it while keeping the great flexibility.

For me, some kind of more tactical combat.
Perhaps some scissor/paper/stone set up where formations add or detract from the results... similar in some respects to Birth of the federation.

Like I wrote in many threads:

Irregularities:
- You can learn exactly which technology the opponent has in the trade screen, without any spying involved.

- You can upgrade a ship anywhere in space, even at the opposite side of the galaxy where you have absolutly no presence.

- You can visualise every planet's terrain and content when you want to place a spy. Just cycle through the planets on the screen to learn many things about your opponents.

- Spying system. The spy "must" travel to the targetted planet and depends on the propulsion technology and Life-support available to see if he can go there. Presently, a spy can go everywhere, regardless if your civ has even explored the area where the planet is and it travels to the planet in exactly 1 turn.


Requiring some tweakings in my mind to make this a classic:
- Spying system. The spying system of Rebellion is, in my opinion, the best system computer games had. Diversity. Spy opponent's and/or own planet to detect agents, it is not automatic. The result is based on the characteristics of the spy. And spying is different then sabotaging.

- Starbases. In my opinion, starbases need to be really more difficult to destroy. Right now, there is too many, not expensive enough which make starbases as common as starships. I should be more rare, more hardened, more strategic.


Now for what is missing in my mind (which would make the game more complex, I know... but I love complex strategic games):
- Docking (difference between capital starships and starfighters, docking at starbases)

- Starship construction yards. A type of starbase (maybe) that would allow a civ to build starships elsewhere in space, without invading a world. Of course, that shipyard would be expensive, would be less efficient (depending on the resources transport routes) and would have major consequences on AI.

- Lack of heroes (diplomatic, scientific, general, etc.)

Those are from my point of view. But I want to say that I really LOVE this game. Not many games have kept my attention in the last years and I can count them : Rebellion, WarCraft 2, HL.

Congrats to Stardock. I'll continue to buy any expansion, because you prove that you are always ready to improve this game based on users wishlists ! And hey, I love this game !

oh my god Starwars: Rebellion??? soooo fun. I'm too nasty at it now so the hardest AI can't handle me. I have to give it chances haha.


But back to the topic, aside from some spying tweaks, this is a pretty nasty game. When I was in college before I graduated a year ago, I had wednesdays off, and I would be up til 5am playing GC2. time flies when I play it. I don't let myself play before work cuz I know I'll be like "just do this one thing then go" and I'll be late haha.


Oh, and having Heros would rule, kinda like moo2, where they could give planet or ship/fleet bonuses and what not, or perhaps empire wide, like an organic galaxy resource.

What would make Galciv a classic is a multiplayer mode.

Yes the spy system is a negative.

If the impossible was possible then i would mate Galciv with x3 and well, wow, the mind boggles!

Depends on how you define a "classic", I guess.

For me, at least, GalCiv2 is better than MOO2, which most people here would rightly agree is a classic game.

Whether it can be improved or not is another question entirely.

I disagree that it's not already a classic. Simply put, I've never played a better 4x TBS game, period. I chalk that up partly to good design and partly the the absence of a multiplayer mode draining resources away from the SP experience, which is all I care about and neglected in most games of this genre.

In my opinion, a classic is a game that you would play / return to play even years later, because even though newer games might have improvements on seperate game elements, they don't actually touch the 'perfect' combination of elements of the classic.

In my opinion UFO X-com is such a game for example. I played it years later even, though it ran actually worse on my newer computer because animations were too fast!

Although I think Galciv II is a GREAT game, in my opinion it's not a classic yet. Dthif mentioned irrigularities, and I think that is a good classification of what's still not quite right about this game. Because the game is still being improved, it also feels unfinished. If it would be possible to fix as much as possible regarding unused buildings, minor bugs, balance issues to make the game persistent in its own logic then I think it could be a classic indeed.

- Starbases. In my opinion, starbases need to be really more difficult to destroy. Right now, there is too many, not expensive enough which make starbases as common as starships. I should be more rare, more hardened, more strategic.

^This is a good one.^

For me, at least, GalCiv2 is better than MOO2, which most people here would rightly agree is a classic game.

I would have to completely disagree with this, especially condiering when they came out and that Galciv could crib the good stuff from MOO2. Not saying it isn't close, but I think MOO2 was more wel thought out in almsot every way. It is just ol now, and GalCiv was able to take what was good and expand on it. Galciv still has too many issues.

I agree entirely. THAT is the litmus test of a "classic"
That's how I felt about SMAC. I played it for 8 years, and only put it away to give GC2 a try.

dthif1980 - Thanks for you points on the issue with spying.

Indeed, good definition of a classic, and it works well too as long as there aren't sequels dsistracting you (looks at the Caesar line of games, and the "X-craft line of games". Gmaes I have played repeatedly more than 5 years after release:

XCOM 1&2
Deadlock 2
Fallout 1&2
Planescape
MOO 2
Civ 2
Alpha Centauri
Railroad Tycoon 2
Dungeon Keeper 2
Europa Universalis 2
Counterstrike/Halflife

I am probably forgeting some, but I think those are all pretty classic. My guess is there will be a GalCiv3 so it won't ever qualify. They seem to have made good money fof it, and it could still use much work.

That's certainly a good list of games, Becephalus (though I have never heard of Deadlock 2)

As Sidemancer pointed out, All that GC2 needs to be an classic is time. I disagree with the idea that a classic doesn't have flaws nor have something that can greatly be improved. Someone else noted SMAC as a classic which I totally agree but the games has some serious flaws and unbalanced. IMO A classic is a game you play for years in spite of it's flaws.

Yes, but some flaws reduce the "fun" factor more than others.

It's worth noting that a number of aspects of GC2 are things that have always been in GC games. And the first public (beta) release of GC on OS/2 actually predated the retail release of the original MOO.

Deadlock 2 was a VERY cool game!!! Anyone who played it will know this line:

"please peruse the following...."

Like, I can easily imagine SMAC being a lot more fun if it had a descent AI.

I detect an air of anger in your reply...
This was not meant to be a flaming session on whether or nor GC2 is a classic.

But in defense of SMAC, the AI was sufficient for its time. Remember 8 years is a long time in programming development/advancement terms.

Neat/challenging ways to play:

I made a thread about using farms as a useable and tradable resource. Food/farming would also be a necessity to a HAPPY empire. I hate the fact that farming is so flat. Instead of getting a bigger pop, why not get more food and give it to the current populace.....and those whiny bastards(pardon my french) should be happy they have food to eat,and not be the food. The colony rush would also be a challenge, as you would have to feed it and actually try to get the people to be happy......not just being a pain in the ass when th pop gets to high.* I would like to see famine strike an empire and see them twist in the wind as their farm supply is drained completely because there isn't one farm in their lousy empire!

*There should be ways to get the pop down instead of transports and farm destruction.(this should be an out cry if you destroy a farm, but as I said, it is flat.) A colosseum would be a nice way to burn off excess population and make the people extra happy at the same time! This would be an ethical choice however. If a civ constructed this they could flip to evil....which brings me to the ethical choices, civs shouldn't have a locked ethical alignment after xeno ethics. It just doesn't make sense!

I think a multiplayer version would go a long way toward ensuring classic status. I much prefer games of GC2 when I'm playing on my own, but still play MOO2 when I'm gaming with friends. There's only so long before I get bored of taking on AI opponents and stop coming back to play the game. It's likely that when Sins of a Solar Empire is released, I'll begin playing that, and will not return to GC2 as often if at all.

There's no anger. This is just a forum. I would say that most who like SMAC wished it had a descent AI to handle all the options. There is alway hope for a sequel.
AI hasn't really advance that much in games especially when you compare it to graphics. The problem which Brad has noted before that adding options to a strategy game is easier than programing an AI to handle them. I found civ3 armies idea fun but it didn't take long to learn the AI had no idea to use them or deal with mine.

Haha I remember deadlock 2. that was some fun stuff. It annoyed me about only having 2 tanks per spot, 4 missiles, etc, but it was fun.

It would be cool if espionage would have different types of attacks. EX:

Minor pestering: just deleting small files to slow down empire research

Hacking: Bring empire research to a standstill

Industrial Havok: Loosening screws and minor things to make life miserable at industrial zones. (IE: Falling objects) Reduce morale slightly and a small production penalty

Terrorism: Plant bombs at the structure to damage of destroy it. Attacking different areas will have different effects! Be creative! (Yea, that sounds evil, but why would the Drengin think?)

Food poisoning: pretty much self-explanatory. Poison their farms to make the people even angrier!

Trade corruption: Make a trade good useless to an empire and the empires it is sent to. Will make other races angry at the race sabotaged and possibly declare war. Good for framing the Torians to make it look like they are stiffing the Altarians!

Shipyard Sabotage: The shipyard on this planet has been compromised and the ships that have been constructed here have reduced health/attack/speed/ie everything and the ships also cost more to maintain. If the saboteur is not stopped, this will continue to all of the ships that will ever be created while he is present. It is suggested that ships should be stopped from constuction here and all ships that were created at this planet be decommissioned immediately! ( good for a civs production planet. Wreak ultimate havok basically!)

Silently observe: Thats right! Just be a good boy and gather useful information.

This game is far from complete, to me this game is a Living Classic. One that will evolve and continue to grow with imput. One day this game will be so great, that when a new engin comes out for it, the game will be copyed over to the new engin, then just improved from that point.

The concept of this game is perfect, and I will stand by the makers and fund them so one day, I will sit down and play this game, and be perfectly happy about playing nothing else.

OooOooh! Captured Yor being fed to the lions? Spies crucified with ingenious methods? Those whiny Earthers getting a taste of Reality? Big Ugly War Robots ripping a few Drengin into tiny little pieces? hee hee hee hee hee heeee! [rubbing palms together briskly] Let's Go!