I agree. My tests with all labs invariably get forced to convert in the other direction due to necessity. It simply doesn't work on the higher difficulty levels unless you are using settings that specifically help you (smaller galaxies, tech trading, etc). Building NLCs is painful even with factories.

Mobility becomes a key factor; having a standard build with decent production allows decentralized military (reducing logistical problems with moving ships to defend). Although each world produces less tech, they all end up adding to a reasonable number. More importantly, when you've got new techs, you can utilize them immediately. The colony rush speed increase is necessary to leverage resources also.

I am somewhat conflicted as to which bonus is more useful; does the +20% research justify the cost? I normally take social/military picks, it's a matter of whether the research capabilities are sufficient or not, although I'm sure it helps. It may simply be that with those picks I would tend to overproduce, so the research bonus is a way of balancing production (kind of like 50/50 on the sliders, but really using 1/99/0). Another way to look at bonus effectiveness is how much I will be using it. Social is only helpful until the planet is built up, military will help most of the time (more when I realize I need to be more aggressive with the AIs without waiting for an entire weapons line), and research will help for most of the game.

I think having +40% research may be necessary to keep pace with the AIs. Although I prefer using Federalists all the time, I usually have more stock markets than I need and play Super Breeder, so it isn't important. Guess I need to test it on higher AIs.

I am somewhat conflicted as to which bonus is more useful; does the +20% research justify the cost?

The test what convinced me it is worth it was following

6 factories, MC, planetery improv tech

Race: S110 m50

res Focus on
S142 R26

No focus:
m68 s94


Race : s40 ,m30 , r40

res Focus on
S97 R47

No focus:
m60 s64

I believe you get bonuses from power plants (in that they are added to base manufacturing before focusing) and get your bonus research on top of it. That's a plus. Techs give +30 SOC, +30 MIL, +10 RES. Specials give +10 RES (Hyper Computers is not included as it's so far down the tree). Evil gets slave center for +50 MIL (effectively higher in some cases depending on abilities).

I've been thinking about the best slider setup and ability distribution for my play style. I was previously running 1/99/0 most of the time and always taking +50 SOC/+50 MIL. However, this seems to be a mistake. Although I like projects to get done immediately, one has to think in terms of marginal time benefit. At some point, social projects get done fast enough that the bonus is effectively wasted; add to this the fact that ships always need to be built and techs are important throughout most of the game (once you're nearly done, you should be able to win!), but planets finish developing at some point (or at least can more slowly develop without major penalties). I have reconsidered using sliders as some people do to maximize bonuses: 100/0/0. Each planet can do the following combinations ([] indicates focus, {} indicated overflow from SOC to MIL):

[100]/0/0 (full bonus to MIL)
50/[50]/0 (full bonus to MIL/SOC)
75/0/[25] (full bonus to MIL/RES)

While the 1/99/0 setting has (approximately):

0/[100]/0 (full bonus to SOC)
[50]/{50}/0 (half bonus to MIL, SOC overflow)
75/{75}/[25] (no bonus to MIL, full bonus to RES)

Consider the case where no SOC projects are pending (it's going to happen eventually to most planets for most of the time). Note that in the second case, some (or all) MIL bonuses are ALWAYS wasted, particularly when using RES focus (necessary for an all-factory build). Assume that I have MIL bonus +80%,, SOC bonus +30%, RES bonus +60% (not so far from reality depending on picks/having some lower techs). The normal (most common) state is MIL with RES focus (to keep techs flowing) and no SOC projects.

100/0/0:
180 MIL, 0 SOC, 0 RES (MIL focus/no focus)
90 MIL, 65 SOC, 0 RES (SOC focus, SOC project)
135 MIL, 0 SOC, 40 RES (RES focus)

1/99/0:
140 MIL, 0 SOC, 0 RES (MIL focus)
0 MIL, 130 SOC, 0 RES (SOC focus/no focus, SOC project)
75 MIL, 0 SOC, 40 RES (RES focus)

Obviously these are scaled to your actual production (mp). It is clear that RES capacity is the same in either case. However, with SOC slider maxed you are not effectively able to both research AND build ships (as you have lost all MIL bonuses for doing so). Conversely, if you choose to build ships quickly, you will be unable to maintain a good background research flow. Doubling your SOC production is probably not worth losing half your ship-building capacity in the long run (since building SOC projects is a temporary need).

From the above examples, it does seem that full military production benefits more in the long term.

Either 100/0/0 and 1/99/0 will run into trouble in the early years due to waste. So I suggest all factory build, especially Thalan to use micro-management balanced spending (use all 3 sliders to get the best average usage) in the colony rush period. This way, you won't go bust. Get those Freighters out ASAP (best with Impulse) and a couple of survey ships if have enough anomalies (for that 250,500,1000BC). Only after economy stables, then start use the specialization settings.

Hmm I am curious to why run 1/99/0 or 100/0/0 at all? - I typically run 50/50/0 , or 30/70/0 during begging to mid game and 70/30/0 end game . I keep research focus on all the time except when building urgent gal. projects .

I mean typically if you have shipyard on a planet it will be building something all the time and most of the time soc projects are built (not on your older worlds - but on newly acquired ones) .Why go 100/0/0 ? And 1/99/0 - i frankly dont understand the point at all (1%?- what does it give?)

The 100/0/0 and 1/99/0 is trying to maximize the respective potential in that particular area of production in the mid to late game and simplifies certain game elements.

Strength of 100/0/0 is that it will double military productions and good for mass producing. Downside is that you have to choose between social and research focus when social building is not complete yet and very wasteful.

Strength of 1/99/0 is that it will almost double social production, unused social will automatically transfer to military production, and can keep focus on research at all times. The 1% in MIL is need as if set to 0, it won't transfer ANY social points to military. The downside is that MIL production transferred from social this way is the base unmodified value + MIL bonus * (base unmodified value * 1%), I think, so it is way lower than either 50/50/0 or 100/0/0, but much easier to manage slider-wise. It is not as wasteful as 100/0/0 but still wasteful.

After a few try out with the extreme MIL and extreme SOC, I'm leaning more toward the more balanced approach between the 2.

Unless I made a mistake in my calculations, 100/0/0 is the optimal use of both production and bonuses regardless of the focused area. However, this doesn't mean it's the best for all cases. 50/50/0 would allow 75% production in either area with focus, so only 25% of the MIL bonus is wasted when having a MIL focus, but SOC at 75% is reasonable when needed. The alternative is 37/37/[25] where you lose half the MIL bonus. 30/70/0 makes sense if you are doing a mass upgrade from tech, otherwise 70/30/0 probably is more efficient.

The strategy is changed slightly from abilities. If your MIL bonus is high, then a high MIL on the slider is more efficient. If your MIL bonus is low or you took a high SOC bonus, then a high SOC value is more appropriate. Playing Thalans or Super Hive, it is preferable to take a MIL bonus over a SOC bonus because the first factories can be bought on each colony cheaply, establishing a reasonable production base. Additional low-tech factories can be constructed, then the primary build sequence or factory upgrades. SOC is less important because of the cheap factories (which is the primary time waster of total SOC projects without intervention).

If your strategy dictates "balancing" the sliders to reduce capacity because of economic strain, this is equivalent to reducing the capacity slider (and is wasteful). The types of builds we're talking about require stronger economies to operate. I have found that economics bonuses don't help at the most critical time - the colony rush. However, using a MIL-focused strategy along with the Super Breeder ability allows higher expansion potential even when the AI's economies are stumbling. I haven't found another combination where the economy can keep up with industrial capacity.

Hi!

That seems to be true, but you need to look at your empire as a whole: maximizing only one part of it often doesn't mean your empire operates better.

Now check the economical part of your strategy: can you afford so many ships? Can you afford to lose excess money over price of the ship each turn the ship is built? Can you afford to maintain all those hugh-cost ships you produce with 100% mil spending? If you build ships only on some planets, then what you call the unused mil production on those planets that don't produce ships?

BR, Iztok

Hi!

The production, transferred to mil queue is equal
(factories + colony building output) * ( manuf capital + power plant bonuses) + asteroid mines * mil bonus.

BR, Iztok

Part of my reason for emphasizing ship production is the fact that I've been neglecting it in favor of social production. This invariably leads to war with the AIs at which point I have to switch gears. That's probably not the best strategy because if I had been trading and building some ships, they would be much happier with me (I might be overextending on the colony rush, but I am used to using Super Breeder to grow my economy at that rate). This strategy (when supported with sufficient stock markets for economy) forces a certain level of background ship production which makes sure I am competitive with the AIs. Actually, I am at low risk for losing worlds even with no ships because of the high growth rate (unless the damned Korath are on my map; only the spore ships can threaten me). I'm sure the power players are very aggressive with low-tech warfare, but I prefer to out-tech some of the AIs so I can divide and conquer the weakers ones (I suppose this would not work on the higher difficulty levels).

Hi!

It works, and quite well. Those AIs that don't start and early militarization are my best customers. In fact only their planets allow me to stay competitive in suicidal games. Those planets, and proper ship defenses.

BR, Iztok

I am finishing large map on suicidal. I practically won ( I did not start clean up process yet, but I have control over 65% of the map and huge production advantage).


One thing I noticed with all fact - that by mid -game I started falling behind hopelessly tech wise. I solved it by conquering a few worlds with research centers already built and then cranking research bar up . In about 40 turns I caught up and got all necessary tech to start building competitive combat ships.