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New player impressions about the tech tree

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New player impressions about the tech tree

from GalCiv2 Forums
Well technically I've had the game for a while at least I bought GC2 about a year ago when it first came out based on the rave reviews at gamespot; however I was expecting something like Moo2 and was a little disappointed with the game. I missed the tactical combat, being able to control all aspects of battle (as opposed to the automatic battle sequences on GC2), I enjoyed watching the opponents sub-systems break down as I directly inflicted damage to structural components taking out vital systems until his engines wouldn't allow for his escape and then I would board with my marines to acquire the ship for myself. I also missed the technology system of Moo2 with the not only incremental improvements in technology but also the special abilities you got with certain new weapons (ie graviton beam inflicts structural damage on top of armour damage, neutron beam kills marines, black hole generator kills units in 2 turns, time warp facilitator is a little overpowered... (although as GC2 has no tactical combat these aren't really applicable).

Now a year later I thought I would give it another try with Dark Avatar (although I had to buy the gold edition as the expansion wasn't available at the store). I know that all you guys out there must be finding quite a bit of stuff in this game worth liking to keep playing it so I tried to approach the game as more like a Civilization in space...which seems to be working so far....I'm still new to the game as I haven't played it much buy I love to figure out the mechanics of the game so I was working out taxes last night and figured out that each 1 billion citizens makes 7.75BC unmodified (woohoo I like it when numbers make sense), though I still have much to work out which brings me to my main complaint: The Tech tree

Why does the tech tree not explain what new improvements do, why hasn't this changed since GC2? (I would of thought it would of bothered a few people). I know I'm whining but heck, it would be nice to know what an Xeno lab is before researching it (Ok I have actually gotten further then this and I know it improves the basic research building from 6 to 8 but how would I know this if I didn't research it?)...same goes for weapons, laser II doesn't help me much with whether it is worth researching or not. Also pre-requisites; I admit I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but It isn't easy to figure out how to move on to the next ship design (I just read it now and it isn't quite as bad as what I thought (I am still learning) but it still doesn't describe the new hull designs at all).

Another thing that would be nice to implement is to apply racial abilities to the planetary summary window...just so you know how much of an effect that +45% research is having or that new planetary improvement tech which gives you +10 to social, military & research.

I'm trying hard to get into this game but it seems I have to research online a lot of game play features to figure out what they do...the tutorials only scratch the surface. I think if there was one thing I would most like to see improved would be to add mouse-over help on EVERYTHING; go crazy if we mouse over social tell me a breakdown of how I'm getting that amount of research eg 12 mp base + 20% bonus then break it down further 10% from Planetary improvements, 10% xeno industrial theory for a total of 14.4 mp. Apply this to research as well so it isn't a mystery until you've played the game a few times (besides research should be fun, not a "what does this do, oh well lets research it anyway"!).

If I'm the only one bothered by this so be it, then don't let me spoil your fun, but if any of you have any similar concerns or perhaps the developers would like to share about the reason for the absence of more Technology info (perhaps it's too difficult to integrate it into the engine...I'm no programmer so I'm pretty ignorant), then I would be keen on hearing opinions
27,916 views 84 replies
Reply #51 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
frogboy,

the techtree descriptions are confusing, everyone knows it, but what i like best about your response, the hubris to turn it back on the community and ask them to fix it themselves because it's too beneath you to bother with

that's good stuff, like the honesty, like the public nature of it as well, let's everyone judge for themselves what stardocks concept of community of users is, which is free labor for stardock basically

Reply #52 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I would like a copy of the spreadsheet. I have struggled with the "what does this do?" or " can't believe I wasted that many turns to get this".

I read the conversation post (ruler & scientist), there were many games (after fruitless research), I'd have jetisoned my scientists into deep space. Didn't much matter, they burned with the rest of my planets by game end.

DF1
Groupy 2 - Organize multiple applications into grouped tabs on your Windows desktop
Reply #53 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

the techtree descriptions are confusing, everyone knows it, but what i like best about your response, the hubris to turn it back on the community and ask them to fix it themselves because it's too beneath you to bother with

that's good stuff, like the honesty, like the public nature of it as well, let's everyone judge for themselves what stardocks concept of community of users is, which is free labor for stardock basically

That's an odd assertion.

My point is that if people think the tech tree text is bad, it's in plain text and users can update it themselves.  We aren't talking about some game mechanic or feature. We're talking about flavor text. 

As I said before, while I agree that the flavor text for the tech tree could be better, I can list dozens of other things I think could be improved in the game too. 

The difference between those other dozens of things and this is that the things we tend to update are things that only we can do since we have the source code.  By contrast, the tech tree could be handled by the community if it wanted to. 

Anytime we update something, it costs money.  I assume you wouldn't expect to pay for a tech tree text update right?  So essentially you are asking for us to work for free. By contrast, we're not expecting anything, we're just pointing out what I think is obvious -- the tech tree is in text and if someone really thinks it's that bad, I invite them to update it themselves if they want. If not, that's fine too. We're not asking for anything. 

At the end of the day, updating budget goes mostly into things that only we can do.  Things that could easily be done by anyone don't tend to get the same attention.  And while I could update the tech tree text in my spare time, it's not something I want to do because I don't think it's a problem enough to justify a post release re-write and I'd rather spend my time writing the backstory for the next game. 

Reply #54 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

We hear you. From now on, I will only suggest improvements that would be fun, and interesting to do.


Sure would love to have a job like that?

Would you mine if I asked what your position is in the company?

I own it.

And I love making games. It's a labor of love and GalCiv II has been a tremendous success in the market as well as critically. The game selling 250,000+ copies demonstrates that turn-based strategy gaming is alive and well.

But I'd still make games even if the market was smaller than it is.  It's not the money that is the motivator. It's making fun, cool and interesting things and more importantly, hanging out with like minded gamers. Make no mistake, if there was no community to hang out with and pass ideas back and forth to, there'd be no game.

In terms of day to day revenue, the desktop enhancements are king.  If you go to Stardock's home page, www.stardock.com you can see how the utilities, not games, dominate. But I spend much of my time hanging out here and working on the game -- because it's fun and does more than pay for itself too.

Over the years, we've put tons of player suggested feedback into the game. Where we tend to balk is when people start demanding us do free updates that really could be done by the player themselves. And flavor text editing has got to be at the top of the list of things that I find problematic. The development team already has a full list of things to work on for 1.6 and 1.7 including the expanded mega events we're soliciting suggestions for. Spending money to update flavor text when users could do it themselves just seems insane to me and like I said, it's not something I'd want to spend time on. I could be writing AI updates instead which I suspect more users would appreciate and prefer anyway.

Reply #55 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I was thinking that, rather than changing the stats in the upper right hand corner that shows up before and after the tech is developed, adding information in the box that talks about the tech. I was wondering if this would work appeasing those who dont think people should know what the techs do until AFTER they are researched. If this is a good idea, i was also wondering if it was possible to be able to bring that box up after the tech was researched, for reference and such. Im not very good at coding and i dont know if it would take a lot of work or anything, but i was wondering if you could make it so if maybe you double clicked on an already researched item on the tech screen, it would show you the window that shows up just after the tech is researched. Feel free to be blunt about your opinions, it's hard to hurt my feeling (yes it is singular). I also have a question as to what is meant by AI value, eg. how would i translate into words what is meant by an ai value of 25?

Reply #56 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
From Frogboy's reply # 54

I own it.

And I love making games. It's a labor of love and GalCiv II has been a tremendous success in the market as well as critically. The game selling 250,000+ copies demonstrates that turn-based strategy gaming is alive and well.
But I'd still make games even if the market was smaller than it is. It's not the money that is the motivator. It's making fun, cool and interesting things and more importantly, hanging out with like minded gamers. Make no mistake, if there was no community to hang out with and pass ideas back and forth to, there'd be no game.
In terms of day to day revenue, the desktop enhancements are king. If you go to Stardock's home page, www.stardock.com you can see how the utilities, not games, dominate. But I spend much of my time hanging out here and working on the game -- because it's fun and does more than pay for itself too.
Over the years, we've put tons of player suggested feedback into the game. Where we tend to balk is when people start demanding us do free updates that really could be done by the player themselves. And flavor text editing has got to be at the top of the list of things that I find problematic. The development team already has a full list of things to work on for 1.6 and 1.7 including the expanded mega events we're soliciting suggestions for. Spending money to update flavor text when users could do it themselves just seems insane to me and like I said, it's not something I'd want to spend time on. I could be writing AI updates instead which I suspect more users would appreciate and prefer anyway.



Nice to meet you Brad,

I too have owned a number of companies in my lifetime, some have been fun, some have made lots of money but very seldom have I been able to make money and have fun at the same time. But I agree that when you can, its fantastic.

Since my last post, I have read your bio from the web, therefore you could say that I have gained some insight, and by the way, I will see your 15 years and raise you 16 years.
I have a great deal of admiration for what you have achieved in your little corner of the PC software industry, but I cannot help but wonder how much more successfull your company would be if you focused more effort on user documentation and sound customer retention programs. I say this knowing quite well that you have already sunk you feet in the sand and are ready to lock horns with any bulls that do not agree with your unusual public relations approach. After all, telling your customers that "if you want it that bad, do it yourself" won't increase games sales, I can assure you.

It seems that your analagy of customer requests is that of a single programmer running a one man show, and as long as I,m having fun, everyone is happy.

You see it as "flavor text", while customers are all lost and screaming for help all over this site. Most have to spend hours reading postings to try to figure out what the heck is going on with this game ( I certainly did). Putting more attention to details in the tech description would answer many questions for new and experienced users. This could only help to increase future sales and improve customer retention.

I've learned that in the world of business, the customer is "King", not you.

Respecfully,

Brian

Reply #57 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I've learned that in the world of business, the customer is "King", not you.


Your forgetting that there is a fine ballance between service and value. The better the servive, the more the product will cost!

However, if you consider how much time stardock spends on customer support, i wonder how much that customer support could be reduced with better in game information? You might spend 3 extra days on better text but save 3 weeks worth of support questions that will never need to be logged?
Reply #58 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Someone who can spell and has a sense of humor needs to get this project cracking. It sounds like a great chance to get your name on something and everyone likes having their name on things right? One thing I would suggest for whoever sees this as a worthwhile use of their time, is to make it not only more informative but still fun. The texts in the tree now are mostly funny. I would also suggest that whoever decides to do this (someone with more time than me please do it) merely adds to what is there especially the texts that are light and doesn't delete some of the more interesting text that is already there. Frogboy basically opened up the doors for people who want to add their own flavor text to the game and make it into an official update. Someone has to see that as a cool thing besides me.
Reply #59 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Im trying to do just that thing, the problem is finding all the information to make it so noobs and current players will still enjoy it. The real problem isnt the time it takes or anything like that, the problem is keeping it enjoyable to everyone while providing info that the new players need. I DONT think that you should have all the info about what a tech does up front, i believe that this game requires a few dry runs in order to fully grasp what is going on in the game. But i DO think there should be more info AFTER you have researched a technology, allowing you to fully capitalize on your new tech. Again, this game IS complex, and it is hard to fit all the info into that little box in the upper right hand corner. So i was wondering if there would be a way to recall the screen that shows up right after you have researched a tech for future reference. Other than that change, i can really start working right away, but i want to make sure that it is possible before i spend a couple hours changing the text for the techs.

Reply #60 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The problem here is will they trust the person doing the editing enough to make the files official? It's a risk. Even with a changelog, it'll take them enough time to check it to make me have some reservations about this. That's why this should be done by someone in the team, or someone close and trustworthy - a veteran preferably. Not questioning anyone's skills, it's just the reasonable way to do things.
Reply #61 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Im thinking that i will just post it somewhere on the forums and ask for comments, have the community check it and find any bugs. At the very least, it can be made into a mod for people who really need it. Most people that are on this forum are rather bright and informed about this game, IMO many of the people in this community could probably be part of the stardock team.

Reply #62 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
There's something a little different I'd like to contribute to this thread.

There's a certain alure to games when you "don't know". Many a MMOG have been ruined by a year+ of hype and build up. Developers will talk about the races and abilities of a given race....and when the players play the game, they get dissappointed when its not exactly what they talked about on the forums....or if there's bugs that prevent exact functionality.

Perhaps in the next GalCiv game (or other stardock game), the tech tree can be a COMPLETE mystery, but with an in-game mechanism to read an online galactic encyclopedia.

In this way the community as a whole would "discover" stuff as they go, and eventually not need it. (maybe even store their own local notes on a tech?)

This would also lend itself to "version control" which is often a problem for GalCiv. If a player is using version 1.4 they would only see the notes on 1.4 version of the tech.

This would require some editorial review and moderation, but I'm sure this community is up for it as long as there's tools to make it easy.

I know Stardock is always looking for ways to leveral "simple" internet functionality (as opposed to mass online multiplayer), and i think this is a great way.

Reply #63 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
the problem is, once you play the game as much as some of us do, you have the techs memorized anyways, so once that happens it would seem like a big selling point of the game is useless. A solution would be to make the advantages from the techs random, but this would mean that Stardock would have to tweak the techtree and such in a major update, which they dont seem to be very willing to do at the moment. EDIT: GOT MY FIRST OUT OF MEMORY ERROR TODAY! WOOT! 2 GIGS OF RAM AND 3500 MEGS VIRTUAL MEMORY AND IT STILL DOESNT HAVE ENUF!!
Reply #64 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Since my last post, I have read your bio from the web, therefore you could say that I have gained some insight, and by the way, I will see your 15 years and raise you 16 years.
I have a great deal of admiration for what you have achieved in your little corner of the PC software industry, but I cannot help but wonder how much more successfull your company would be if you focused more effort on user documentation and sound customer retention programs. I say this knowing quite well that you have already sunk you feet in the sand and are ready to lock horns with any bulls that do not agree with your unusual public relations approach. After all, telling your customers that "if you want it that bad, do it yourself" won't increase games sales, I can assure you.

What PC games have you designed? Can you link to them?

You've been on this forum for what? A month and a half and you presume to tell me or the GalCiv community how it should be?

It's not about locking horns or whatever you imagine it to be. It's simply the calculation, based on experience, that our time is better spent on other things. 

Every user has a laundry list of things they'd love to see changed.  As I've said, repeatedly, we focus on the features that have the highest demand combined with whether only we can change them.

As for our "unusual" PR strategy, I would argue that it is a net benefit. People like honesty and transparency. 

But more to the point, you don't really provide any tangible justification for your argument other than to insist that your credentials on business are somehow greater than mine and that I should simply budget updates based on your recommendations.  I don't find that a compelling argument.

If you had been around the forums for awhile, you would already know that many feature updates over the past year or so have been based on players making a good case for why a given feature should be changed or updated. 

By contrast the argument "Do as I say because I know more" is not very persuasive.

Reply #65 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

The problem here is will they trust the person doing the editing enough to make the files official? It's a risk. Even with a changelog, it'll take them enough time to check it to make me have some reservations about this. That's why this should be done by someone in the team, or someone close and trustworthy - a veteran preferably. Not questioning anyone's skills, it's just the reasonable way to do things.

Could be edited on the Wiki and then put together in its final XML form after awhile. 

The text from Galactic Civilizations I was done by a fan who later became an employee at Stardock.  The names of stars in the game came from people in the community.

I realize a few people see community particpiation as a cynical "free work" type thing. But let's be honest here, we're talking about free updates.  The game's already the highest rated PC game of 2007. It's pretty solid and we're about to release a major update that revampes the underlying graphics engine (how many game updates in history have included a new graphics engine?). 

Anyway, the point is that we've always seen these post-release updates as a community effort: you guys tell us what you want and we try to put in the most popular requests.  But here is an opportunity where the community can take a more direct involvement.

I realize that folks like LightVader will say that text changing is very important but the post-release budget is finite.  And I'd argue that our time is better spent updating AI, adding new features, new events, new UI elements, etc. More people, I suspect, will appreciate that than if we re-wrote description text.

 

Reply #66 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Frogboy, I would have to disagree with the last point you made. I feel that many more people will appreciate the game engine more if they truly understood how it works. Currently you just have it working in the background, which is a very good thing except you advertise all these features and then make people have to dig and look around to actually understand how the game works and how to best play the game. I think that improving the text would increase people's understanding of the game and possibly sway many people that are only trying it to actually buy the game.

I dont mean to be argumentative or anything, but so far the only thing i have asked you is whether or not it is feasible to change the techtree so you could double click on a tech and see the end of research screen. This question has yet to be answered, instead you are talking to people that DONT want to do anything while I try to improve the text, but i dont want to spend all my time changing the descriptions just to find out that people would not be able to look at the screen again for future reference, effectively making the update useless.
Reply #67 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

but so far the only thing i have asked you is whether or not it is feasible to change the techtree so you could double click on a tech and see the end of research screen

I don't understand what you mean by this.

Reply #68 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I realize a few people see community particpiation as a cynical "free work" type thing.


Not really. By definition, it is free work. But the problem is how *you* see things and the way they're presented here in the forums. Honesty? I don't think so. To me it feels more like it's either naive or simply a marketing act.

But let's be honest here, we're talking about free updates.


Really? Technically, patches are free. The updates you mention, most are fixes or upgrades. So why should anyone be charged for them, if they're improving a product that had problems needing fixing? You seem to think software is different from any other product sold by any other company. It's not. When you sell something, it has to be in perfect working order. It doesn't just need to work, it needs to work as advertised and intended. Which brings me to the free updates that are advertised in these forums. It's really a matter of how you do things. No beta team, release as is, patch later. It was your choice to go with such a system. You have to fulfill your part, correct? So all these sand-in-the-eyes tactics are really unnecessary and imature.

It's pretty solid and we're about to release a major update that revampes the underlying graphics engine (how many game updates in history have included a new graphics engine?).


And this has nothing to do with the fantasy game, right? It's good that you did it, but don't try to sell it as something it's not.

As a final note, I don't see SD as a game company at all. It's a software company that made a game. I don't really see much of the game making mindset here. No doubt about the success of the game, but I think the weaknesses are begining to show - and not just in the game. The attitude you accuse some people of having? Maybe you should take a look at yours. And your justifications and arguments? Geez man, I can't even comment them.
This is not to viewed as a personal attack, but your "transparency" and "unusual PR" are really painting a whole new picture. If my opinion already wasn't favorable at all, now it's irreversibly stuck at the bottom. Not that anyone would care mind you, but I don't think you're making too good an impression lately. I don't really have anything else to say about this.
Reply #69 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I don't see WHY the tech descriptions in Galciv2 are lacking. If any of you played Galciv1, you would know that the tech descriptions are long and describe what you just researched. I think the worst desciptions are the colonization techs, they hardly tell you anything at all!
Reply #70 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
but so far the only thing i have asked you is whether or not it is feasible to change the techtree so you could double click on a tech and see the end of research screen
I don't understand what you mean by this.




I mean that after a technology is resarched a screen pops up that contains the description of the technology aka the 'flavor text.' I was wondering if it is possible for you to make it so you could open up the tech screen and somehow see the flavor text again. This would allow me to easily add the description of what the tech will actually do before, after, or within the flavor text itself, making the text fun and informing simultaniously, rather than just entertaining.

I am insisting strongly on this point because the updated text is primarily directed to those who are trying to learn how to play the game and it is impossible to expect them to remember everything about every tech the first time, or even the fifth time, they see it.
Reply #71 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Really? Technically, patches are free. The updates you mention, most are fixes or upgrades. So why should anyone be charged for them, if they're improving a product that had problems needing fixing? You seem to think software is different from any other product sold by any other company. It's not. When you sell something, it has to be in perfect working order. It doesn't just need to work, it needs to work as advertised and intended. Which brings me to the free updates that are advertised in these forums. It's really a matter of how you do things. No beta team, release as is, patch later. It was your choice to go with such a system. You have to fulfill your part, correct? So all these sand-in-the-eyes tactics are really unnecessary and imature.

Most of our budget (at least 90% of it) goes into updates that are adding new features and content, not fixes.  As released, GalCiv II and Dark Avatar were very solid (especially compared to other titles).  I really cannot think of any significant bugs that have been fixed in Dark Avatar (certainly nothing requireing a patch). 

I think most would agree that changing the flavor text of tech descriptions that have been around for a very long time would not fall under a "bug fix".

You seem to have developed a sense of entitlement. When users start demanding that we re-do the tech tree text to suit them as a free update, that, to me, is sending the wrong message. It means we've probably reached the point of diminishing returns.

If you really think there's no internal QA on these betas, then I don't know what to say to that. Do you really think that these betas are so stable on release by sheer coincidence?

As a final note, I don't see SD as a game company at all. It's a software company that made a game. I don't really see much of the game making mindset here. No doubt about the success of the game, but I think the weaknesses are begining to show - and not just in the game. The attitude you accuse some people of having? Maybe you should take a look at yours. And your justifications and arguments? Geez man, I can't even comment them.


This is not to viewed as a personal attack, but your "transparency" and "unusual PR" are really painting a whole new picture. If my opinion already wasn't favorable at all, now it's irreversibly stuck at the bottom. Not that anyone would care mind you, but I don't think you're making too good an impression lately. I don't really have anything else to say about this.

You are correct - Stardock is a software development company. Not a game company.  Our internal titles are Project Manager, Team Leader, etc. Not Producer or whatever.

We look at games as an engineering effort and it is, I think, to the benefit of gamers.  To me, one of my gripes about the game industry is that games are released and quickly abandoned.

By contrast, like other software companies, we treat our games as something that continue to evolve after release.

If people think that the way we make games or treat customers is flawed or wrong, then odds are, they won't buy future titles and we will either have to adapt or not make games anymore.  Similarly, if people do like the way we make games and treat customers, they're more inclined to buy future titles.

I think, generally speaking, the way we do updates and deal transparently with users (even if that means being candid or blunt) is a net benefit. 

Reply #72 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

I mean that after a technology is resarched a screen pops up that contains the description of the technology aka the 'flavor text.' I was wondering if it is possible for you to make it so you could open up the tech screen and somehow see the flavor text again. This would allow me to easily add the description of what the tech will actually do before, after, or within the flavor text itself, making the text fun and informing simultaniously, rather than just entertaining.

Ah I see what you mean.  This should be possible to do.  Let me talk to the team on that.

Reply #73 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
But more to the point, you don't really provide any tangible justification for your argument other than to insist that your credentials on business are somehow greater than mine and that I should simply budget updates based on your recommendations. I don't find that a compelling argument.


Frogboy,

Your attempt to discredit me is ammusing! Is that how you treat all your customers?

The only justification you should need is your own earlier post, that says that "you agreed with all the comments, that the poor documentation was a weak point in your product". If you need more, there are a number of other dissatisfied or confused customer's post that you could read. They are not just begging for "free updates", they just want information they assumed whould be available to them in the first place.

This is not about how many game design notches you have on our belt Brad. Its about the value of good documentation, customer satisfaction and public relations innitiative. Those are tools of business not programming.

I gave you the benifit of an un-biased outside perspective. If you choose to criticize it, its your loss.

Reply #74 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Yikes, that a few nitpicker's could elicit three responses from Frogboy himself on this issue conveys the twisted power of the forum...

Regarding the criticisms of how easy or cheap it would be to update the descriptions, I think the $1,500 figure being bandied about is pretty unrealistic. I would point out all the typos and incorrect grammar used above in the very threads doing the complaining. (Kind of a cheap shot, I know. I can't expect LightVader to be proofing his posts, but still, my point is that good writing is not easy... focussing, comming, loose, magority?... heh.) Any changes for the descriptions would need to be edited and proofed for factual game information, grammar and effective prose before being updated into the commercial product. It takes time and expertise.

IMHO, although there is room for improvement, the techs are more than adequate as they are, certainly for the vast majority of players who are not playing at suicidal or above and need the exact numbers for every move they make in the game.
Reply #75 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Your attempt to discredit me is ammusing! Is that how you treat all your customers?

You seem to have me confused for a store clerk.  The player and the developer are on equal terms here. We provide a product/service you want and you exchange money for that product and service in a fair and equal trade.

I provide you with the same respect you provide me.  You claimed that you had 16 years of game development under your belt. I asked what games you designed. You then claim I am trying to discredit you.



The only justification you should need is your own earlier post, that says that "you agreed with all the comments, that the poor documentation was a weak point in your product". If you need more, there are a number of other dissatisfied or confused customer's post that you could read. They are not just begging for "free updates", they just want information they assumed whould be available to them in the first place.

That's nonsense.  Just because I agree that tech descriptions are a weakness in the game doesn't mean they need to be udpated.

Let me expand upon that:

I also think that:

  1. The invasion handling in GalCiv is relatively weak.
  2. That troops and civilian populations are merged is a weakness.
  3. That the populations being measured in billions is a weakness.
  4. That each turn is a week instead of a day is a weakness.
  5. That players can't set the game year as one of their options is a weakness
  6. That players can't select what UP issue is going to be voted on is a weakness
  7. That spying (while improved in DA) could still be better
  8. That there is no Galactic Encyclopedia integrated into the game ala what Civ IV has is a weakness
  9. The way constructors and starbases are managed is a weakness
  10. The way production is split between research on the one hand and military/social on the other is a weakness.

That's 10 glaring things off the top of my head that I see as weaknesses in the game.  But that doesn't mean that they can or need to be addressed in a free update. No game is perfect.  What we do is release the best game we can and then after release look at things we can improve with the budget we have and look at what we can do in future expansion packs and sequels.

I had an even larger laundry list after the first Galactic Civilizations which we addressed much of with GalCiv II.

Every game I play I can think of ways it could have been better. But that doesn't mean the developer owe it to me to change it.


This is not about how many game design notches you have on our belt Brad. Its about the value of good documentation, customer satisfaction and public relations innitiative. Those are tools of business not programming.

Sure. But on that count, the case is pretty strong in our favor.  Fantastic sales, good word of mouth, highest rated PC game of 2007 (by far), lots of editor's choice awards, etc. All made by a company that has been in business for over 15 years. 



I gave you the benifit of an un-biased outside perspective. If you choose to criticize it, its your loss.

Unbiased? You claim that your opinion is objective? Objective relative to what?

You tried to make a business case out of thin air (claimed it would cost $1,500 to redo the tech tree text and that this would in turn justify itself through increased sales).  You provided no credentials or any other reason as to why your "objective" opinion should carry weight. 

I don't agree with your opinion.  And not agreeing with your opinion may or may not be my loss but you gave me little reason to accept your opinion as being valid other than your strenuous insistence that you know a lot on the game industry (16 years of experience you say).

I feel pretty confident that more users care about the 10 things i mentioned above than the text of the tech tree. 

The difference is that the tech tree text can be changed by anyone.