Production explained - how various bonuses apply

Hi!
For quite some time I had an issue with planetary production: how it works and how it's actually charged. For testing I used recent DA 1.6 beta3. Here are the results. Please note the actual amount of production and research varies with the spending slider seting, and mil/soc/research sliders settings. All calculations seem to be rounded down. Basic method of output calculation is:
output = ( base production (factories, labs) * 
sum of buildings' bonuses (capitals, power plants...) +
points from focus +
points from asteroid mines )
*
sum of other bonuses (abilities, starbases...).


Research
- Research buildings give base research. Bonus tiles just add stated bonus to base research of building on that tile.
- Tech Capital, Omega Research Center and Research Coordination Center add stated percent of research to base research.
- Points from focus are added to base research.
- Player pays full amount of base research.
- Colonization event that enhances research, production-enhancing modules on starbases, mining research resources, initial race abilities and various technologies add stated percentage of bonus research to base research. Player pays only half of that bonus. The payment goes from treasury and is not visible on planet mgmt. screen.
- Research on planets with Extreme environments is not penalized.
- bug: planets with rings DO NOT give any research bonus. It is displayed in planet details, but not given.
- glitch: research pane shows only base research, not the actual one with bonuses.

Manufacturing
- Factories give base production. Bonus tiles just add their stated bonus to the base production of the building on that tile.
- Manufacturing Capital and various power plants add the stated percent of production to base production.
- The Artificial Slave Center (evil-only tech) adds 50% to base military production, bonus not shown anywhere.
- Production points from asteroid mines are added to base production. Points are calculated for each asteroid field separately and rounded down.
- Production points from focus are added to base production.
- If these production points are not used in social queue (unused social production), they are transferred to military queue.
- If this production is used, then the player pays full amount for it.
- Various other bonuses (the colonization event that enhances production, moon, production-enhancing modules on starbases, initial race abilities and various technologies) add their stated percentage of bonus production to base production. The player pays only half of that bonus. The payment is subtracted from the treasury and is not visible on the planet management screen.
- Excess military production (production over price of the ship - e.g. ship costs 40MP, planet produces 200MPs, so excess is 160MP) is lost, but player still PAYS for it.
- When a ship is bought on a planet, it will be available in the next turn. However all military production on that planet will be wasted (no new ship build, but player will still pay for that production).
- Production on planets with Extreme environments is penalized: if player knows only one half of the extreme tech, a planet's production is halved. If player doesn't have ANY knowledge of planet's environment (he invaded or bought the planet), factories and asteroid mines don't give any production (100% penality). BTW that's also the only penality that planet suffers - research, influence, taxes and pop growth are normal.

Focus
- When a player sets focus on research, that field takes 1/4 of base production from other two fields, and adds that amount to whatever it already has. After that it adds to the new amount all bonuses the planet and race has in that field.
- When a player sets focus on social or military production, that field takes 1/4 of base research and 1/2 from the other production field, and adds that amount to whatever it already has. After that it adds to the new amount all bonuses the planet and race has in that field.
- focus DOES NOT transfer the bonus from the Artificial Slave Center to other fields.
- focus transfers 1/4 production points from asteroid mines to research. Discovered by drriderin reply #37: "However the amount of point production from the mines is proportional to the combined military and social slider positions, with fractions rounded down, just as if they were factories. So there has to be SOME industrial production programmed in order for the mines to actually produce anything."
- on planets with penalities from extreme environments focus still transfers 1/4 of research points into production.
- glitch discovered by Dog of Justice: Tech Capital, Omega Research Center and Research Coordination Center DO NOT add more production points when focus is set on production.

BR, Iztok
46,332 views 39 replies
Reply #1 Top
When I used the all-labs strategy, the Tech Capital did NOT increase my focused production, even though according to this model it should. Can you check this?
Reply #2 Top
When I used the all-labs strategy, the Tech Capital did NOT increase my focused production, even though according to this model it should. Can you check this?


In DA v1.5 with 1 basic lab @ 100% ind, 100% res I got 34 tp with the terrans(4 bonus from rings). Focusing on social gave me 26 tp and 7 social. (Adding a tech capital later increased the amount but didn't double it either.) Perhaps there's another explanation?
Reply #3 Top
I've got the beta 1.6 but haven't loaded it up yet. After I do I'll check on your results. For now I only received my full ring bonus when research was above ~95% in v1.5 DA, so the game must round down.
Reply #4 Top
Hi!
When I used the all-labs strategy, the Tech Capital did NOT increase my focused production, even though according to this model it should. Can you check this?

Yes, I can confirm that. The same behaviour was with the Omega Research Center and Research Coordination Center - no bonus from them for focus on production. However the manufacturing capital and power plants do increase the amount of TPs in the research focus. I'd say you discovered another game glitch. Will change my post accordingly.

Would you mind if I include "your" glitch in my error report to Stardock?

BR, Iztok
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Reply #6 Top
I want to compliment Iztok on yet another fine example of digging into the mechanics of the game and giving folks the benefit of his analysis. This is by no means the first time Iztok has provided useful insight to the game and assumedly won't be the last.

I want to thank Iztok for the many contributions that he's made to the enjoyment of this game over the many months that I've been playing it.   
Reply #7 Top
Good job Iztok.

After that it adds to the new amount all bonuses the planet and race has in that field.

Don't anyone let this one slip by you. I often use this rule. If I KNOW I'll be going all factories before I start a game, I'll go for a big racial research buff to counteract my lack of labs, or vice versa. You'd be surprised what a difference +60% racial research makes when you only build factories, for instance.

So much fun breaking this stuff down.
Reply #8 Top
Tech Capital, Omega Research Center and Research Coordination Center add stated percent of research to base research

Are the bonuses compounded?
e.g., If I build a lab on a precursor library, plus an Omega Research Center, and Research Coordination Center, do I get 1 + 7 + 0.5 + 0.25 = 8.75 times the labs output (assuming 100% research spending) or 1 X 8 X 1.5 X 1.25 = 15? What about bonuses from race abilities, galactic resources, colonization ethics choices, moons/rings, and economic starbases, do they compound on the other bonues?
Reply #9 Top
Hi!
If I build a lab on a precursor library, plus an Omega Research Center, and Research Coordination Cente

You get:
1) (lab_output + lab_output * 7) *
2) (1 + 0.5 for OMC + 0.25 for RCC) *
3) (1 + 0.20 for Technologist + 0.1 for Planetary Improvements tech + 0.39 for mining one
   research resource + 2 * 0.24 from two econ starbases + 0.1 from Nano Recorders)
= lab_output * 8 * 1.75 * 2.27 = lab_output * 31.78

However you pay only a half for bonuses from ad. 3.

BR, Iztok
Reply #10 Top
Hi!
I stand corrected. When I've been testing some discrepancies with focusing production, I discovered that focus on production field (soc or mil) takes 50% of base production from the other one, and 25% from research. 've corrected the original post and wiki.

BR, Iztok
Reply #11 Top
Hi!
Another thing has creept up: the Artificial Slave Center (evil-only tech) works somewhat differently. I've updated the original post.

BTW in new DA beta the Initial Colony has 16 production points and cost 12BC to maintain.

BR, Iztok
Reply #12 Top
I think you still have the Artificial Slave Center wrong. It adds 50% to the calculated production. I.E. 1.5 times your production after it has everything else calculated into it.

Thanks again for putting this together!
Reply #13 Top
Nice research there Itzok! Thanks for your insights.

I noticed something about the Artificial Slave Center in one of my games however... I was running an all factories strat, and I found that when I focused research on my ASC planet, I did NOT get any military production bonuses; when, however, I took that focus off research, (I had a 1/99/0 slider setup BTW) I got a DRAMATIC leap in mili production... has this already been explained, or did I perhaps misconstrue what I saw?

Reply #14 Top
Hi!
1.5 times your production after it has everything else calculated into it.

I've based my "positioning" on the fact that with ASC planets show in empty mil queue a 50% increase in base production, and the payment is also deducted as base production (no free production at all).

However at what time it applies doesn't actually matter, because all those various types of bonuses multiply the raw production output. Hummm, the original post isn't here clear enough. Will correct it.

BR, Iztok
Reply #15 Top
Hi!
To conclude production: I've added two military production "candies" many of you probably don't know about. {sarcasm}No doubt you'll be happy when you'll take a look. {/sarcasm}

BR, Iztok
Reply #16 Top
"- candy#2: when a ship is bought on a planet, it will be available in the next turn. However all military production on that planet for the current turn will be WASTED - no new ship build, but player will still PAY for that production. "

I wonder if this is by design or not? If it's not, then wouldn't it make more sense to factor in the current turn's military production into account when it lists the price for purchasing a ship? That way, the production's not wasted, but you're still paying for it and getting something out of it.

Thanks again for the insights IB
Reply #17 Top

Hi!
1.5 times your production after it has everything else calculated into it.

I've based my "positioning" on the fact that with ASC planets show in empty mil queue a 50% increase in base production, and the payment is also deducted as base production (no free production at all).

However at what time it applies doesn't actually matter, because all those various types of bonuses multiply the raw production output. Hummm, the original post isn't here clear enough. Will correct it.

BR, Iztok


Ah, I get what you are saying and you are right. I was trying to clarify that it is not a plus 50% added in with all the other bonuses you might have to military but a multiplicative bonus. Not sure the best way to explain this...
Reply #18 Top
"After that it adds to the new amount all bonuses the planet and race has in that field."

Don't anyone let this one slip by you. I often use this rule. If I KNOW I'll be going all factories before I start a game, I'll go for a big racial research buff to counteract my lack of labs, or vice versa. You'd be surprised what a difference +60% racial research makes when you only build factories, for instance.

Does this mean I still should grab research galactic resources if I'm playing all factories? I thought they only provided a boost to my labs.
Reply #19 Top
Does this mean I still should grab research galactic resources if I'm playing all factories? I thought they only provided a boost to my labs.



Yes. I think they just multiply research. For instance, if all you had was the initial colony building, plus a maxed-out research resource, it should multiply whatever research you'd normally be getting. If factories can funnel to research via focus, then you should get that funnelled amount multiplied.


Reply #20 Top
2 * 0.24 from two econ starbases

In my game current DA 1.6 game, I can only get 13%(4+5+4) production bonus(researching manuf. centers and industrial centers did not allow me to add additional modules). I also get 60% trade bonus(master trade).
Reply #21 Top
What happens if you mine TWO purple research resources? I haven't formally tested this so I only have anecdotal evidence, but it looks like the bonuses stack multiplicatively. I've been getting unexpectedly large research from planets when I find two or more purple resources.
Reply #22 Top
Hi!
What happens if you mine TWO purple research resources?

They increase your research ability, so they shoud be additive:
... multiplied by sum of other bonuses (abilities, starbases...)


BR, Iztok
Reply #23 Top
In my game current DA 1.6 game, from my EC starbases I can only get 13%(4+5+4) production bonus(researching manuf. centers and industrial centers did not allow me to add additional modules). How can I get my production bonus per EC starbase higher?
Reply #24 Top
Hi!
from my EC starbases I can only get 13%(4+5+4) production bonus

I've looked into this. Seems there's a prescribed upgrading path for mudules. You need to research Smart Drones (Advanced Computing), before being able to upgrade your SB further.

BR, Iztok
Reply #25 Top
Hi!
I added production from asteroid mines and penalities from extreme environments.:

Production points from asteroid mines are added after all other calculations are done, and are not changed by any bonus. Focus transfers 1/4 of those points to research. Distribution to mil/soc queue is done with sliders. Player pays full amount of BCs for each point.

Production on planets with Extreme environments is penalized: if player knows only one half of the extreme tech, a planet's production is halved. If player doesn't have ANY knowledge of planet's environment (he invaded or bought the planet), factories and asteroid mines don't give any production (100% penality).

On planets with penalities from extreme environments focus still transfers 1/4 of research points into production.

BR, Iztok