No, it proves that things *still aren't right* within this game, nothing more, nothing less.

Unfortunately people find faults in everything and fail to recognize all the pluses which far outweigh the negatives.

Even the developers know this is a bug, and have said as much - how do these kind of statements originate is beyond me.

And why someone would want the devs to waste an entire patch cycle to "fix" something completely irrelevant is beyond me, so I guess we're going to have to agree to mutual lack of comprehension. All I know is that this nonsense is going to cost us new features and tweaks and give us nothing tangible in return but a slightly (and I mean INCREDIBLY slightly) easier to beat AI opponent.

Everyone has their own Perspective.

To qualify as a bug, it must be somthing in the game which is doing somthing that it is not supposed to be doing. For example, i might like to call the spy system a bug, but it is actually doing what it is supposed to be doing, therefore i cannot call it a bug, it is just an annoying game feature.

Emphasis on ANNOYING, especially if you save and reload each turn ...

Why on Earth would anyone do that?

Vinraith -
I agree with you completely, and much earlier in this thread voted against wasting resources on "fixing" it. It is a minor bonus at best that has rarely if ever effected me, let alone being an actual impediment to victory. However:

It is my understanding from others that play Gigantic, all abundant maps with somewhere between 600 and 900 worlds that at some point the micormanagement leads to only getting in one turn in an evening. In fact, I think Mumble even mentioned somewhere in this thread that sometimes he wouldn't even get ONE turn done in an evening, resulting in multiple saves and loads for a single turn. Imagine the time it would take to check the building and military queues on 100 worlds and adjust everything just so. Imagine that for 400 worlds. I can see where they are coming from.

Still, I have never heard Mumblefratz or purge or one of the other abundant/gig players claim that they lost a game due to this "bug", and as already stated, it has always been there. It is, as you mention, a problem that only very slightly helps the AI. For one, it only matters for rush buys - and so is really most likely to have an effect during the colony rush. During the colony rush is when you are least likely to be saving and loading as a result of needing to micromanage hundreds of worlds. Even then, it would have to be at a point where rush buying an extra building got you to produce a ship a turn faster... which if two rush buys would accomplish, means that the AI will get one ship one turn faster, because by the second turn it could have accomplished a second rush buy anyway. Maybe, with 9 opponents, you are looking at a one time boost of 9 enemy ships if you were facing a perfect storm. That's it. And thats worst case. More likely an AI build time on a colonizer drops from 4 turns to 3 turns one turn too early, so the AI is getting a fraction of a colony ship quicker, though not cheaper.

As I said many posts ago, if this "bug" is causing you to lose games, lower the difficulty level. If it is causing you to lose games on cakewalk, you might want to find a different game to invest your time in.

- Wyndstar

Even for us Gig players, it's not the highest rated bug by a long shot. I think I would still put the issue of ships losing their autopilot on big maps with lots of ships as the most annoying. Especially when it's pretty common to spend half an hour to an hour finding them on game load. This is, I think, a middle of the road annoyance. The biggest thing it changes is that I will always play out the first half a year before quitting a game to make sure it remains a minor annoyance, not a game altering bug.

My bigger concern was that the AI might have been getting an extra round of buying every turn, which would affect the start game significantly, since it would compound. I'm still not 100% convinced that this isn't the case based upon the early parts of this thread. But the developers seem to think it's limited to game load and that is good enough for me. Even if it was every turn, this is something I could live with, but I would want to know...But I also wouldn't mind having a difficultly level above Suicidal, so I'm biased.

*Gleams* Yes! If we could have this over fixing this "bug" I would be all for it.

In fact it is little feature changes like that I most look forward too. I would love a step or two slower than very slow research to be able to choose as well, for truly caveman like clashes.

A higher level of difficulty.

I would also like to be able to up the number of asteroids that are popped down. Even at abundant the random generator never comes close to kicking out as many as were in several of the campaign missions. Seeing as asteroids also effect movement, and so add a level of tactical depth and terrain defense as well, I wish there was some way I could get more of them. As it is, they seem to be (sadly) generated near planets. So for instance, if you choose rare planets, rare stars, but abundant asteroids you get... almost no asteroids. Its so sad really.

Oh, but I know this thread isn't for wish lists. Just seeing the possibility for another difficulty level got me excited. Sigh.

- Wyndstar

I am - for the first time - disappointed with the principle behind Frogboys reply. The severity or otherwise of such a basic aspect of the game should be nailed without delay. I cant believe it is rocket science to prevent a "Turn" on a reload, and I am aware of the hidden time factor in bug fixing, I have managed enough code teams in the past to be acutely aware of the so called "simple fix".

However, this is basic mechanics of the game. Stardock have a well deserved reputation for ongoing quality and bug fixing. The Integrity of that reputation can be destroyed in an instant by occurances such as this. Reality is irrelevant, perception is all with gaming communities, and it is essential that bugs of this nature - if confirmed - are dealt with as a priority. It is one thing to have an annoying armour bug, quite another to have a basic error such as this. If it were confirmed, those playing Gigantic games would see a significant difference.

As to this particular 'bug', I personally am content with Cari's reply (@reply 174) that no tax or Production advantage is gained by it, that is potentially the main damage factor. Clearly there is some effect as it was not a full denial of the 'bug' effect, but if Cari is not genuinely worried by it, thats good enough for me for the moment.

Meanwhile it should be fixed with all possible speed. At the margins lots of things could be claimed as "essential basics" to the game, but something such as this is inarguably basic game mechanics. Dont miss the key issue here Stardock, its not the 'bug' effect - benign or otherwise - its the real and potential damage to reputations where the Perception of bugged basic game mechanics goes unchecked.

Regards
Zy

Has anyone tried the beta builds to see if this problem is reduced by the change I made in 1.6 beta 5?

I've done the same tests from before with the latest version. Cari's fix appears to have solved this issue; the AIs bought only one building per turn, and no extra production progress was gained on repeated save/reloads.

Hurray!

Thanks Cari and Kryo!

Thanks for the explanation Wyndstar, it would never have occurred to me that anyone would find that kind of play entertaining. I guess there's no end to the diversity of tastes this game can appeal to...

And kudos to Cari for apparently resolving this whole thing while we were all still arguing about it.

Thank the gods! May we let this topic RIP (at least until someone claims the fix doesn't work!).

Thanks for the fix Cari.

Still, has anyone, anywhere actually noticed a difference? That is, are your games now magically easier because the AI now doesn't "cheat"????

- Wyndstar