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Spies are a pain in the back

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Spies are a pain in the back

from GalCiv2 Forums
When playing with 8 civs, it feels like I spend all my time fighting off those """"" red spies that pop up faster than my tax income allows me to fend them off. For me , this new feature is nothing but a pain in the backside. It takes the focus off the real meat and potatoes of the game, and gives me the feeling that I am playing a game made for 5 year old kids. Who ever heard of a single spy stopping a factory from working after all! Spies steal information, so lets get with it.

Or at least give a person the option of turning the darn option off so that spies only spy, like it was in the first game. To add some reality to the game, the civ should have a way of increasing the difficulty or security level on a planet so that the level of espionage spending for each planet would be different. Or, maybe the tech tree, could have a graduating scale like port guards, security police, counter terrorist unit, central intelligence agency... to increase the security of all planets in the federation. Spies could then be discovered by the police and the stolen information recovered. Most important to me would be the discovery of which civ sent the spy!

I hope you will consider my comments.
14,673 views 37 replies
Reply #26 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I like the new spy system. It adds another dimension to the game. Not only do you have to defend your empire in a new way, but it also gives you a new way to attack enemies without declaring war. I cannot even recount how many times it saved my ass in a tight war by disabling key 700% tiles and capitals, as well as farms and morale buildings for information tactic invasions.

I do agree that espionage and sabotage should be separated, though. How to do this? Well, maybe if you simply want to do espionage you should be able to place your spy on the planet capital. This won't disable the capital, but increases your espionage efforts. Also, espionage missions should not be easily detected and there should only be a small chance every turn that an espionage agent will be deteted.

There are also not enough spy techs. I feel the system should be expanded and have a dedicated tech tree to increase spy and counter-spy effectiveness
Reply #27 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I have been in battles where my ally must have been spying on me, because I had destroyed my enemy's economy, yet the darn spies still came.


Yes, because they're playing wisely! Unless I have a super strong opponent that I'm fighting, I often spy on my strongest ally, especially if that ally is stronger than me. It just sets them back a bit, not only slowing down their production but also forcing them to put some significant cash into developing spies to nullify mine. Then, when I'm done finishing off those who aren't my allies, I can turn against an ally who isn't as strong as he would have been without my spying on him.

I like the system and would be disappointed if more micromanagement was introduced. Then again, I didn't mind DL's system either.
Offworld Trading Company
Reply #28 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
i liked the old espionage system.

the interface was true to what you would expect the leader of a galactic empire to deal with. he assigns a budget -- the spies do their jobs.

im the leader of an empire, not the leader of an espionage bureau.

a better improvement would have been if foreign planets within your territorial influence would be modified depending on espionage level with the civ that owns the planet. ie;

- lower morale and unrest due to propaganda and subversion, better chance at flipping a planet.
- leeching the planets resources (BC TP BP, Trade Income if the planet has routes)
- higher probability of stealing techs.

overall espionage score would only make the effect even better. so mercantile governments and races gifted in espionage would have advantages at this even after every other civ reaches max espionage rather than just being gifted at reaching max espionage first.
Reply #29 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think the devs should put the old DL espionage system back in place and keep the "spys" as sabotuers. In reality it requires a massive amount of intel to develope mission profiles for sabotage, and the old espionage system was just fine for information. I think for game balance though, certain types of tiles should be reserved for higher levels of espionage. I would personally like to see a high level of espionage required to even use a spy, and I would like to have the ability at advanced to put one on a spaceport inorder to sabotage a ship in orbit aroung the planet, or the civ colony if the influence ratio is above 4 to allow bribing or insurrection missions. I'm a long time Rebellion freak and I must say they had the most balanced espionage/counter espionage game system I've ever seen. Nothing anywhere compares IMHO.
Reply #30 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think Clocknova's suggestions point in the right direction.

Besides, i also think that the chance to remove an enemy spy should improve every turn so that eventually the spy is discovered and removed. Players said it before, there's no way one can deal with 8 civs sending spies. I am managing an empire here, must i be the one to deal with every spy?! Can't i delegate that task to the billions that live in every planet? Surely they have their own institutions to counter espionage... please don't tell me i am running an empire of brainless sheeps. If they are intelligent enough to research technologies, manufacture goods, trade and build ships, so too should they are intelligent enough to deal with spies. I should be much more concerned with leading than micromanaging.

A planet's approval should contribute to this chance of finding a spy so a happy planet would be more active in disrupting spying attempts because people aren't as much permeable to bribes. Unhappy people wouldn't care so much so it would take longer for spies to be rooted out, but every spy should be discovered sooner or later. Races with a high espionage bonus like the Krynn would be able to make their spies last longer of course, because they simply are better at espionage.

So the tech tree's counter-espionage branch would be dedicated to improving not only your passive chance of finding spies but also finding out who sent the spy in the first place. On the other hand, the espionage branch would be dedicated to improving espionage results on the various missions (information gathering, tech stealing, sabotage, subversion) as well as your spies's resilience not only to detection but to torture as well.

Bottom line is, make espionage meaningful. As it is, there's no real strategy in it.
Reply #31 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Well said!
Reply #32 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I have, and have concluded that you are a

pain in the backside
!!!

*Nothing* "personal", but that was a pretty pointless post.


You those of you that have a learning problem! The issue is that the spy system does not work when you are playing with many civs. Specially when you have the most powerful military. The system should be re-worked as most " mature" players do not like it the way it is.

1: There are not enough tiles on planets to waste one on each planet for anty-spy buildings.
2: The constantly escalading cost of spies is forbiding. This would make more sense if it applied to spies sent to other planets, but not spies used to nullify spies attacking you. This would then be a penalty for being a spying nation.
3: There should be a cap on the number of spies a nation can send to a planet.
4: A tech tree "anti-espionage ranking system" that does not require the erection of new buildings on planets should be devised to increase all of your planets shielding against espionage, hence making it more difficult and expensive for spies to land on your planet, then to detect and kill the spies.

If spies are part of the game, make it fun,give us some control over them please!
Reply #33 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
1: There are not enough tiles on planets to waste one on each planet for anti-spy buildings.


If counter-espionage buildings also have a 20% morale bonus, I think they're worth it a lot of the time. Maybe not for ALL your planets, even your PQ4's, which is basically what it takes to stop spying, but certainly for a lot of your real producers.
Reply #34 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
If MP was ever added, espionage would be banned- I guarantee it, since everyone would dogpileon one person.
Reply #35 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Dogpiling would be kinda fun for 2v2 games.
Reply #36 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
You those of you that have a learning problem!


Umm, let's review: Who has the learning problem?
Reply #37 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I have to agree that DA's espionage system is not providing any fun for me. Bottom line is that I wish I could play without it.

I don't like having to search for a choice tile to occupy just to start gaining info on an opponent. Then 2 turns later I have to do it again, when he nullifies the spy.

Everyone is asking for more abilities for spies, but I think the system should be really straightforward: If I am spending more on espionage than you are on counterespionage then I should steadily gain intel on you. No micromanagement necessary.

Secondly, sabotage should be completely separate from espionage. The current mechanic for sabotage is just fine, but it can get really tedious. It would be nice to be able to play a game without it. It's not fun playing whack-a-mole on my favorite tiles. It's irritating how a few pathetic AIs can have such a dramatic effect on you just because the 3 of them can outproduce the 1 of you.