AI trading colonization techs

I agree. You may want to check your debug.err and see if the AI's are trading colonization techs with each other but not with you. That's supposed to be not fair.

The workaround I do is not to bother with colonization techs. Invade instead. You don't need colonization techs to invade; in fact, you can steal the techs that way.

Hi!

Three AIs start with some extreme techs: Yor with barren, Korath with toxic, and Iconians with toxic and aqatic. And Altarians go for those extreme environmental techs almost before anything else. In my tiny suicidal game they colonized a radioactive planet at turn 9.

BR, Iztok

This is one of the reasons (not the only one) I see the current tech trading setup as being a significant and unfair advantage for the AI...I would really like it to be fixed, but, in the meantime, you pretty much have to either turn tech trading off, reduce the number of opponents or pretend you just cranked the AI up at least one difficulty level, maybe two.

Let me say again...Please fix.

This is not good... If the AI's can colonize both an extreme environment AND an earth-like planet, then that's a double advantage against the human player.

If you play as the Yor, Korath, or Iconians, you get to start off with those techs too...

I'm just getting up to maso now, and in my current game AI races colonized ALL of the extreme planets, and there were many of them. However, it didn't matter that much, because their pop didn't get high enough to make a huge difference. In fact, it tended to be a drag upon their econs more than a boon. So, I've just been waiting until mid/late game to trade for or research any of those colonizing techs. At that point they're easy to research, and when you're actually starting to take those planets, that's when it really matters.

What really needs to be changed is that the AI doesn't colonize class 1 planets. Those are some of the best planets. I just sat around until mid-game, built about 5 colony ships, and took them when I already had neutral alignment and all the terraforming techs. Then they become around 17-class planets.

I also had an early DA game when I spent about 40 weeks as the Drath researching a colonization tech line, because inhabitable planets were pretty scarce. It was worth it in that game. So, I hope people don't talk about changing things if not taking into account how the game set-ups can be extremely different player by player.

Thank for your input everyone,

First of all, I don't understand why it's so difficult to code the AI to trade with other AI's like it would the human player. 9In terms of cost)..based on relations, military power, etc.

But that aside, they should at least make the AI's "pay through the nose" for the colonizatiuon techs just like a human player would have to. That would force the AI to make a decision between colonization and other tech lines..just like a human player.

Yeah, I hate how the AIs offer each other fair trades, while they offer me stuff like

"we would like to give you laser theory in exchange for Majesty"

No, in my latest game I got, from the Terrans of all races, the offer of anti-matter power plants (their offer) for beam weapon theory!!! And this was on masochistic!

This is on the latest DA build, which is supposedly very bad for tech trading. I find it just fine. You have to target what you want, and it doesn't take long to realize what low techs the AI thinks are awesome, like basic min and basic log.

I think it is a little more gray than this, but in terms of just tech I'm with you 100%. They trade for way more tech than a player is ever able to. If you care about colonization techs, I see where this would put you at a disadvantage.

I'm with tetleytea about the solution. Invade.

Or turn off tech trading. That will level the playing field and give you a different game.

To see how you can use DA tech trading to your advantage see Wyndstar's Altarian AAR. He used it to generate obscene amounts of cash. There are also a number of other provocative ideas and strategies in this AAR, too.

Hydro

IMO turning off tech trading is an extreme solution to the problem. I like tech trading, but I just want a level playing field.

I wouldnt worry about the AI grabbing all the Extreme planets, it tends ot hurt them more than anythign else.

Basically, those extremes ahve a reduced production value and they tend to ahve a very pwoerful drag on the AI. By the time I get the tech Im usually very close to getting the PLanetary Invasion line and then I just take the planets over - with basics indsutry intact, after the AI built it up for me lol. I tend to play on Crippling. I dunno, its a double edged sword for the AI regarding colnization techs, they get more planets but it wrecks their finances.

The reason why the AI can't trade with other AI's the same way it trades with the human player is because the AI doesn't know how to offer trades the way a human player does. Think about it - how often does the AI offer you two (or more) techs for one? How often does it say "I want to sell this tech, how much will you give for it?" How often does it say "I want that tech you have, what do you want for it?"
The human player trades like that all the time, and the AI "defends" against it by offering the worst deal possible to the human based on a "table of values."
I don't know how the trades between the AI's work. I wonder whether one AI "asks" another for a tech it wants or what.

I'd be interested in now the AI-AI tech trades work, too. I might be a little less irritated if I knew how the rules worked.

It's hard to say who offered what in the debug.err file, although it is clear who got what. Some of the trades defy logic, where diplomatically challenged races get a tech you couldn't pry out of the cold, dead hands of the AI.

Hydro

It's a workaround, and even though it's even better than researching (for what you get), it's not a solution. Feels cheesy. A new feature that doesn't work correctly... I don't think DA is coming out quite as expected.
I don't quite understand why you can invade extreme planets without a special tech, be it the colonization techs themselves (at least the first one), or a branch off the invasion line. I wish they'd think things through before implementing new "features"...

I'm not sure how the AI trades with itself, but I suspect that the trading is either free between AI's or the "table of values" is not considered, and one AI will trade UT for phasors III with another AI. (For example)

All I want is for the AI to "pay" the same amount for a tech as I do.

Hmmmm. I don't really have a problem with this at all. Typicaly play Tough or higher level.

I don't see the AI's trading the colonization techs much with each other. They typically have all different ones with very little crossover until mid game. I personally hold off on starting up that tech tree until I can get Extreme Colonization in less then 8 turns or so. BUT, that will change if I see a nice jucy class 17 Toxic close by.

After I've explored as far out as I deem possible to colonize I take inventory and write down all the extreme planets, making note of any that have a higher strategic value, but preferring higher class ones of course. I will then target 1 or 2 of them only. I get colony ships build and sitting next to such planets so that once the tech comes in I can immediately colonize it. In my current game I had 4 of the types in my sectors but I actually only went after 1, Aqua, as there was a class 14 Aqua on the border with the Yor and a class 7 Aqua that would really help to fill in my influence on another border.

I don't worry about the rest. So what if the AI comes into my area and colonizes those worlds. They have very little influence and grow so slow that they typically flip to me anyway. Had that happen in my current game. Had 2 Heavy Gravity planets flip to me in less then 5 turns apart so I quickly researched that which by that time only took 4 turns to get. After a small war I actually stole several more colonization techs as they were the only techs my enemy had that I didn't.

So basically I see no problem. The AI does put a priority on the colonization techs and I've seen them go after the ones that have the highest class planets available in their area. So just be aware of that and keep tabs on what the AI has vs. what you want to get and you'll be just fine. The new extreme environments are my favorite part of the game.