Not sure if defense bug is fixed or not

Look at the strength of their attack though. They must have knocked you out in just 2-3 rounds.

How was your attack distributed. How much of it came from bonus points? If a lot of it had to do with a +% to weapons, just getting unlucky in the first round could easily lead to this result. How was their 71 missile defense distributed? What was the defense on their highest attack/hp ship?

It could mean there is a problem, but just from one battle you could have just gotten unlucky.

I don't have much in the way of bonus points, perhaps 10% from custom race (can't remember). No military resource or anything.

I guess it could be unlucky but only 5 hp damage total? I have a 117 mass driver attack vs. his 0 defense against it. Even if he was able to wipe out all my ships in 1 round I still should have cut thru his lousy 2 ships with only 33 hp. Maybe I just don't understand the math behind it but in DL's I would have done a LOT of damage since he had no defense against it. Again, I would take heavy losses myself but I should be able to take him down with me.

A more conclusive test would be to design two ships in a battle of the gods scenario, give one to the other race, and go to war. You'll be able to see if something funny is happening a bit better.

Hi!

They should had a sqrt(their missile defenses) defense value. In your case probably sqrt(36) = 6 defenses against your mass drivers. But you have a point: the off-type defense bug is probably still present, as (at least it seems so) none of your 8 ships had enough firepower to destroy those off-type defenses in a single shoot, so each ship faced only slightly decreased 36 defenses.

BR, Iztok

They would have been rolling with 8 defense against your mass drivers. I don't think any of your weapons had 8 attack or more, correct?

If so, then my initial thought is that the bug is still present, even if defense degradation is now happening. The degradation is being done to the initial 71 defense value, so the drath only started rolling with 7 defense after they took 7 damage. After that, it's another 14 points of damage before they reduce down to a defense roll of 6. This means that if you don't have any weapons that individually exceed that, you have to get VERY lucky roll to get damage through.

Thats just a guess, though, based on a single battle, which could have been just luck. Anyone else seeing stuff like this happening?

I would also suspect that the off-type defense is not working correctly too.

In my last game, I had medium hulled ships (~10 attack, 15 missile defense) fight alone against fleet of 5 super dominator corvettes (2 mass driver attack). Since there was a lot of those fleets (maybe one hundred fleets) and I didn't had a lot of ships, I saw a lot of those battles. I won all of them, losing 2-3 hp per battle (losing only with almost dead ships).

So, the Drengin had a total of 10 attack per fleet, thus an average of 5 damage per round. I had (15)^0.5 = 3 effective defense against it. So I should have expected a lost of at least 2 hp per round. Since the corvettes had ~9 hp, I would need 2 rounds to kill the first ship. So I should at minimum lose 4 hp per battle (and that is forgetting the damage from the 4 remaining corvettes, and the unlucky defense rolls).

Since this didn't happened, I would venture to guess that the decaying defense is not the off-type reduced value (3), but the base value (15). So for a given round it would start at 15 and be reduced to 10, both giving the same reduced value of 3, totally blocking the damage from the 1-attack rail guns 25% of the time. So I would get ~1.25 damage for the first turn, not more than 4.

I wonder if it'd be easier to just halve the value for off-defense. IE if you have 10 missle def, you roll 0-5 against lasers or mass drivers. But I would think if you could program that, it shouldn't be much harder to do the square root of the number either. But I'm not a game programmer, so I don't know for sure.

I actually saved the game just before this battle because I was tired of being slaughtered so I wanted to test it. I just ran the battle 5 more times and each time, same result. The amount of damage varies a bit but I never get more then 8 total damage on them.

Here are the details of the ships. I apologize, I only had 5 ships to the Drath's 2.

My fleet:
3 medium hull ships (31 hp, 31 hp, 7/31 hp). 21 attack (mass), 0 defense
2 large hull ships (66 hp each). 27 attack (mass), 2 defense (missle)

Drath fleet:
1 small hull ship, 10 hps. 16 attack (missle), 16 defense (missle)
1 medium hull ship, 23/27 hp. 255 attack (missle), 55 defense (missle)

Most battles have 8-11 shots on each side (both same amount).
My shots rarely do 1hp damage, mostly 0.

End of battle always results in all my ships dead, his medium hull ship with 5-8 hp damage and his small hull untouched.

Hope that helps.

Well, it does help. It means your attack was really facing 55 off type defense. The enemies will go for your mediums first, your largers second.

Your attack of 117 should average (before defense) about 58 damage in the first round, (all three mediums should be destroyed after the first round), and then about 27 damage in the second round.

The medium hull you are targetting should only have 7 defense against you. So in round one, you would expect to destroy the medium fighter 58-7 = 51, the medium only had 23 hp.

Because you ran it multiple times, this is not based on luck. Of course, if the off type defense isn't degrading, 1-7 may be plenty of defense against each individual gun that your ships fire.

This does indeed look like the bug isn't fixed.

Has anyone reported it via the bug tracker? We've already learned that bugs reported on the forums don't get sent to the dev team very fast.

Not to mention that sending a savegame just before the battle happens will surely help thedev to see what needs to be corrected

Sure, the first targeted ship are the one with the highest attack/(HP + defense) ratio.

For reminder, a description of the new battle system and the official fix for the offtype defense bug could be found here: https://forums.galciv2.com/?forumid=421&aid=139395 (top post) and here https://forums.galciv2.com/?forumid=162&aid=147189 (post #71)

Due to the new combat system, it is important to know how many weapons there is on the various ships since each weapon is fired individually. And when a ship has killed another ship, it will target another ship with remaining weapons

Actually, the number of weapons SHOULDN'T be a big factor unless, indeed, the bug is still present (in which case, the power of the weapons not exceeding the square root value of the off type defense is a big problem)

bonscott (and anyone else who might have a saved game that demonstrates this),

If you have the saved game before the battle, please zip and send your saved game to [email protected].   Put ATTN: CodeCritter in the subject line.  Please give a brief explanation of which ships to watch and I will take a look at the internals of the game to find out what is going on.

Thank you.

I was bored at work, and started making a logic tree(ie pre-programming programming) on how to calculate the battles, and I had a couple questions.

1.) Say a ship has laser 10 and another has Shield 5 and Armor 2. If the attack roll is 8 and the shield def roll is 2, does the difference of 6 carry over to the armor, or does it go to decreasing HP's?

2.) Does each individual weapon fire, or does one type of weapon fire at a time? IE if a ship has 6 lasers, does each laser fire individually, or do all 6 fire as one?

3.) When in the battle is the determination of a destroyed ship occur?

One note of opinion, as I was thinking about this, I came to the realization that missle defense stopping lasers doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. Mass drivers maybe, but not lasers. Thanks for your help.

Saved game on it's way!

I also tend towards thinking that defences don't necessarily need to be effective at all against certain types of weapon. Maybe they ought to only block on-type and one off-type.



3. Ships are determined to be destroyed at the end of the combat round, unless the attacker has the super warrior ability, in which case they are destroyed if they lose all their HP in the attacker's first salvo.

2. Weapons fire individually. Defence rolls against each weapon, meaning that it is possible for damage to bleed-through and strike the hull if defence rolls less than the attack. This becomes more likely towards the end of the round when defence has degraded enough.

1. If the overall defence roll (that is, factoring in the off-type defence) is only 2, then yes the remaining damage for that weapon should go on to damage the hull. If another laser fires, it should then contend with the armour because the shields are out. How fast the armour should deteriorate under off-type fire, I have no idea.

Ok, thanks. That makes it significantly more difficult, as you have to keep track of the number of each weapon as well. Assuming all of one type shot at once simplifies the "code" and I think the programming as well. Then you only have to compare 1 "group" to the various defenses. In theory it would speed up the game, since it would cut the time for battles IMO.

Hi!

Not in the available 1.6 beta. My point-defense defended mediums (PD 28) are destroying drengin's superdominator corvetes as easily as my armored mediums (A 32), taking 1-2 points more damage on average. Since fleets of drengin have ~15 mass attack from 4 ships, my PD defended ships should be dead in first battle, not winning the fourth.

BR, Iztok