Defense Bug Patch Fix.

Question. Is the defense bug going to be fixed by itself in a patch, or are we going to have to wait for 1.6 for it? I'd prefer it to be fixed in a separate patch if possible- that will make waiting for 1.6 a lot easier, as it really is the only major issue currently right now.

8,357 views 18 replies
Reply #1 Top
Yes, please patch it. My last game nearly was killed by this. Most AI's had a huge shield defense against beams while I had a huge attack with mass drivers and I couldn't touch them. I had to turtle and eek out a technology victory before I got wiped out.
Reply #2 Top
There's a fix in the works, but no ETA thus far.
Reply #3 Top
So it's being patched seperately, but hasn't been done yet? I'm ok with that- as long as that fix comes as soon as it works. I'd either want that or the option to patch back (I lost the original patch due to a reformat)



Reply #4 Top
Could somebody describe to me what this bug is? I'm about to start playing the expansion and it sounds like I should know about this.
Reply #5 Top
Could somebody describe to me what this bug is? I'm about to start playing the expansion and it sounds like I should know about this.


Look for the thread "Defense is now too powerful" or somesuch. I can't find it, or I'd paste a link.

This bug probably won't affect your game for a while. Hopefully the patch will be in in time. I am assuming it is a programming thing, not a data thing, so upgrading in the middle of your game will work.
Reply #6 Top
So, kyro any word on this? Also, how are they going to fix this game imbalance? (I wouldn't call it a bug neccessarily) Bonescott, why not counter for now by trying to really research defense tech, and creating ubber defensed ships of your own? Then it would be slug fest I am sure, but it seems like that would be the logical way to give yourself a fighting chance. Afterall, the tech victory should take awhile right? Why not tech up in defense instead, and create powerful defensive ships of your own?
Reply #7 Top
There's a fix in the works, but no ETA thus far.


How do you guys know this stuff? Do you know someone working at Stardock?
Reply #8 Top
or are we going to have to wait for 1.6 for it?


Sorry, there are no plans for another patch before 1.6.

Also, how are they going to fix this game imbalance?


CodeCritter commented about the change on the 1.50x.072 thread.
Reply #9 Top
CodeCritter commented about the change on the 1.50x.072 thread.


Where is that at? Do you know how Stardock intends to correct this game imbalance? Well guys, research defense before weapons until 1.6 comes out. That would be my advice.
Reply #10 Top
Where is that at?


Link
Reply #11 Top

Yes, please patch it. My last game nearly was killed by this. Most AI's had a huge shield defense against beams while I had a huge attack with mass drivers and I couldn't touch them. I had to turtle and eek out a technology victory before I got wiped out.


I had this same problem. Even worse, I had actually captured the on type defense via war and it was relatively useless to me because of the bug. The answer is to develop your own off type defense, that way the bug plays out equally for both you and the AI. Better yet, develop more than one defense tree (as I now have), and share out defenses amongst more than one type of defense. Then, if the AI switches weapons or you get stuck fighting a different AI, you still benefit from the off type defense. You can make some very effective hulls this way.
Reply #12 Top
Bonescott, why not counter for now by trying to really research defense tech, and creating ubber defensed ships of your own? Then it would be slug fest I am sure, but it seems like that would be the logical way to give yourself a fighting chance. Afterall, the tech victory should take awhile right? Why not tech up in defense instead, and create powerful defensive ships of your own?


Yea, I plan to do that next time. In this game it was too late before I noticed how much the defense was on the AI's. My research was already thru the roof so I decided to race for tech victory instead of spending hours trying to slug it out.

Reply #13 Top
I guess the motto until the patch is go for incredible defense first and only research a weak weapon to fight back with (like lasers). I think after you have some low level weapon to fight back with, just keep climbing the defense tech tree. Only after you have awesome defensed ships should you bother with better weapons.
Reply #14 Top
Question then- is there any way outside of SDC to get the previous patches? I lost my archives due to reformatting, but I'd rather play the older version of DA without the bug. Can I at least ask Stardock to offer a reversion patch since they're not going to patch up till 1.6? (I said I was ok with that, but I do want that bug gone, since it affected me more then any of the previous bugs DA had that were fixed.)

I will say this, you guys handle complaints and criticisms a lot better then the MTW2 forums...
Reply #15 Top
Keep in mind that the defense techs are a lot cheaper to research, so later game you can rip through a defensive tech tree pretty fast. Also, with the defense bug you are still going to need to pack a reasonably high amount of both offense (you have to have enough to do damage through his defense) and defense (enough to totally or near totally stop his offense), meaning that you are going to need good offensive weapons as well. Early to mid game, your ships will not be big enough to carry both and still be viable for long unless you have a pretty slow game research rate.
Reply #16 Top
Question then- is there any way outside of SDC to get the previous patches? I lost my archives due to reformatting, but I'd rather play the older version of DA without the bug.


This bug could have existed at some point during the beta, but it wouldn't have been picked up because the cost of defence was much greater.

I think it's key to build ships that attack your opponent's strongest defence rather than a zero or weak defence, to avoid the off-type problem. If you have enough weapons to bring it down, you're more likely going to score bleed-through damage.
Reply #17 Top
How do you guys know this stuff? Do you know someone working at Stardock?


HINT: The thing that says "STARDOCK" next to Kryo's name means he works for StarDock.

Reply #18 Top
For what its worth, off type defense isn't actually stronger, it is just almost as strong as on type defense. Lets look at two quick examples:

Say you face a 50 pt defense, and your weapons do 10 per turn.
On Type:
Attack 1 = Def reduced to 40 [0 damage done]
Attack 2 = Def reduced to 30 [0 damage done]
Attack 3 = Def reduced to 20 [0 damage done]
Attack 4 = Def reduced to 10 [0 damage done]
Attack 5 = Def reduced to 0 [0 damage done]
Attack 6+ = doing damage.

Off Type: Def = sqrt 50, or 7
Attack 1 = Def reduced to 43 (so def 6) [3 damage done]
Attack 2 = Def reduced to 37 (so def 6) [4 damage done]
Attack 3 = Def reduced to 31 (so def 5) [4 damage done]
Attack 4 = Def reduced to 26 (so def 5) [5 damage done]
Attack 5 = Def reduced to 21 (so def 4) [5 damage done]
Attack 6+ etc.

While you have knocked out all of the defense under scenario 1, you have done 21 more damage against the off type defense. It takes more attacks to knock it out, but it also blocks less damage. The above is a simplification (no randomness to the rolls), but the basic point is that 50 is still greater than 7+6+5+4+3+2+1. The problem is that you would actually have expected to do 43 damage against the off type defense, but you only did 21. This effect magnifies as your attack and defense numbers approach 1000, but off type still consistently blocks slightly less damage than on type defense.

In any case, I do hope a fix is forthcoming. And yes, I believe that every version of DA had this bug, so to get around it you would need to go back to DL. Even in the first version, people who made large defense oriented ships were reporting that they were performing very well. When the cost was lowered and everyone began using defense, it just became much more obvious that this bug existed.

Good luck to all, hope that helps.