With good weapons you can get everything (Drengin's motto)

from GalCiv2 Forums
Hi!
In most my masochistic games I've seen Drengin (and now also Korath) playing by that rule, and if they're not hampered by a bad start, or a close neighborhood of both Altarians and Torians, they just roll over their neighbors, one at a time. And while they're taking planets, they also receive techs from their victims. So at the end they really get everything. When they get their momentum (planets of one or two races), seems that I am in most cases the only one that can stop them. Also in most cases not by destroying their huge-attack fleets, but by attacking their economy - planets and galactic resources.

IMO having good weapons (and all else below average) shouldn't give such an advantage. Also neighbours of Drengin should react to their presence by researching better weapons and proper defenses, instead building infrastructure Drengin will use. Let Drengin remain an aggressor, but please change the game in such a way they'll have more problems with their approach. Like:
- made maintenance costs of ships higher,
- cripple somewhat drengin's research capability,
- decrease morale bonus Drengin get by default,
- made close races react better to Drengin as neighbour (war is imminent),
- made all races react better to anyone building big military. It's silly that they like them more instead fearing them more.

You might dislike my proposals, but I've seen that happen in way too many games. I'd just like to se more variety.

BR, Iztok
9,083 views 8 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It's just that the AI is really good with the weapons approach. Or, more accurately, the AI is better at that than the other tactics.
Personally, my favorite tactic is research and economy. With good research you can get everything. Summer of 2230, the Drengin had a HUGE fleet of Singularity Driver ships and an even bigger fleet of Super Dominator Corvettes. They declare war on me. I didn't even have Space Weapons. Three dark turns ensue, with numerous losses in constructors, stations and worlds.Ditla I, class 8, lost. Kryo II, class 12, lost. Incor Systems, class 16 research world, lost. Finally, the GAC Vindicator, the first Vaunted class cruiser is built at Center Shipyards. It proceeds to rape four fleets of Drengin ships in the first week, thanks to it's dual Hyperwarp I engines and triple disruptors, backed by dual Duranthium hull integrity systems. The next turn, the GAC Valiant, another Vaunted class cruiser, enters the fray from Hammerforge. It is 2234 now, and I can't really say I've ever actually lost a battle. The bloodthirsty Drengin are history, so are the warmongering Terrans and the xenophobic Yor. Altaria is sending it's ships to the border, believing they are next to join the Galactic Alliance the hard way.
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It's just that the AI is really good with the weapons approach. Or, more accurately, the AI is better at that than the other tactics.
Personally, my favorite tactic is research and economy. With good research you can get everything. Summer of 2230, the Drengin had a HUGE fleet of Singularity Driver ships and an even bigger fleet of Super Dominator Corvettes. They declare war on me. I didn't even have Space Weapons. Three dark turns ensue, with numerous losses in constructors, stations and worlds.Ditla I, class 8, lost. Kryo II, class 12, lost. Incor Systems, class 16 research world, lost. Finally, the GAC Vindicator, the first Vaunted class cruiser is built at Center Shipyards. It proceeds to rape four fleets of Drengin ships in the first week, thanks to it's dual Hyperwarp I engines and triple disruptors, backed by dual Duranthium hull integrity systems. The next turn, the GAC Valiant, another Vaunted class cruiser, enters the fray from Hammerforge. It is 2234 now, and I can't really say I've ever actually lost a battle. The bloodthirsty Drengin are history, so are the warmongering Terrans and the xenophobic Yor. Altaria is sending it's ships to the border, believing they are next to join the Galactic Alliance the hard way.


Awesome!!! Now that's a game. Teach those evil doers a lesson!
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Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Iztok -

I agree, both of those races are killer under the new DA rules. The Drengin less so as the game goes on because Super Dominator Corvettes get them into wars they can't handle sometimes. These two races often start with between a +45% and +65% weapons bonus, and that is hard for any race to overcome. When you think in terms of how much higher you have to be in the tech tree to match them, well it is a huge advantage.

In my experience, maxing weapons and logistics can still beat anything in this game, its just a matter of how fast.

Of your ideas, I most like lowering the morale bonus those two races get. They still have plenty of other advantages, and the morale helps them to have some of the better economies on top of everything else.

Perhaps the devs made them so powerful to go with the story. According to the new opening movie, the only power strong enough to face the Drengin Empire is... the Drengin Empire.

You can also always remove them as opponents and choose to fight only the other races.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
You might dislike my proposals, but I've seen that happen in way too many games. I'd just like to se more variety.


I too would like to see more variety but I think your proposals would be following the wrong approach. The Drengin and Korath AI's don't need to be weakened it's the other AI's that need to be strenghtened.

The other civs need to be more militaristic and aggressive the fact is they are affectively going for research or influence victories which has a very low chance if not zero chance of success on most maps. All the races should be trying to win a military victory but just have subtle differnces in the way they go about it. War and conquest is simply imperative to winning in this game a peaceful path means defeat.

I'd much rather be playing against 9 drengin style opponents than 2 drengin opponents and 7 donkey races that effectively can't win which is pretty much the situation at the moment.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The Drengin and Korath don't seem to do too well in my games. They have great weapons, but they lack in other areas, including logistics, propulsion, and hulls. So their military rating is huge, but they're not an especially effective fighting force. And if they're unable to conquer, then they are eventually surpassed by the civs that actually built strong economies. The Drengin and Korath probably do best on maps with abundant habitable planets and slow tech pace, so that they can easily get at their targets early in the game.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Of your ideas, I most like lowering the morale bonus those two races get. They still have plenty of other advantages, and the morale helps them to have some of the better economies on top of everything else.


Morale? They should be getting a big hit on Diplomacy. They should be the most hated races in the game, especially the Korath. Who wants to be nice with a race that wants to commit genocide to all other sentient races?

Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Hi!
In my experience, maxing weapons and logistics can still beat anything in this game, its just a matter of how fast.

In my currrent game I wanted to prove the opposite, and IMO I did. However some might also argue that beating 2 large hulls, full of Anti-matter torpedos III with my single large hull with 2 AM torpedos and 20 ultimate missile defenses isn't a proof, especially when I have three times their pop, slightly better economy and can spit out significantly more research.

You can also always remove them as opponents and choose to fight only the other races.

And have a boring game? Nowaythankyouverymuch!

BR, Iztok
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I noticed this in my current game. When I still had Lasers II, the Drengin already had Plasma III. This continued most of the game till my spies stole Phasers VI from them. That, paired with my Barriers III and better logistics was enough to make a "Drengin Killer."

They also put almost no research into hulls or propulsion until late in the game (I had tech trading off.) Tons of small hulls with nothing but weapons. 53 Beam on a small hull with no defense and a single basic engine made for a funny ship.

"Don't come within 3 parsecs of me, or I'll kill ya!"