Patch Tech Trading Documentation

from GalCiv2 Forums
Tech trading was made much different after the 1.50x patch. This was likely done to combat ‘tech whoring’ and abuses of the AI by players.

One of the questions that has come up since the 1.50x patch is to what degree is the AI trading tech between each other. Well, it turns out the answer is quite a lot. Below is documentation of AI tech trades from debug.err file for AAR Scenario 2: Korath from Jan 2226 to Feb 2227.

1. Year: 2226. Yor Collective traded Xeno Communications to the Jessuins in exchange for Starship Defenses
2. Krynn Consulate traded Research Centers to the Thalan Empire in exchange for Xeno Factory Construction
3. Drengin Empire traded HyperDrive to the Paulos in exchange for Missile Defense Theory
4. Krynn Consulate traded Xeno Factory Construction to the Yor Collective in exchange for Barren World Colonization
5. Yor Collective traded Xeno Factory Construction to the Dominion of Korx in exchange for Master Trade
6. Thalan Empire traded Planetary Improvements to the Krynn Consulate in exchange for Advanced Computing
7. Dominion of Korx traded Xeno Factory Construction to the Drengin Empire in exchange for Heavy Gravity Colonization
8. Krynn Consulate traded Advanced Computing to the Drengin Empire in exchange for Diplomatic Relations
9. Krynn Consulate traded Universal Translator to the Jessuins in exchange for Starship Defenses
10. Yor Collective traded Planetary Improvements to the Paulos in exchange for Chaff
11. Thalan Empire traded Sensors to the Drengin Empire in exchange for Universal Translator
12. Krynn Consulate traded Diplomatic Relations to the Paulos in exchange for Chaff
13. Thalan Empire traded Universal Translator to the Yor Collective in exchange for Xeno Communications
14. Drengin Empire traded Diplomatic Relations to the Yor Collective in exchange for Chaff

Notice that the AI traded extreme colonization tech several times, as well as military techs. Some of the trades are fairly even and others lopsided. Of course, when I tried to trade any tech (at any level of relative diplomatic ability) I was told to either get lost (any weapon tech, extreme colonization tech) or the exchanges was simply unacceptable (e.g. – all my tech for a tech I could research in ~3 turns).

For me this is proof enough that the patch hosed over the tech trading. At a minimum it is not at all clear how the system works – there is no feedback for a player - and it is quite obvious the AI understands how this works, to the detriment of the human player. So it would seem the human entity isn’t seen as just another AI since, functionally, the rules seem to operate differently.

THEREFORE – I’m turning tech trading off from now on. I’d be interested if others have had this observation.

Hydro
3,702 views 6 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I just finished a game on Tough (all algorithms enabled), with tech trading, and I didn't have a problem.

That wasn't always the case, however. The first few games I played after the patch were frustrating as all hell, because I couldn't get the AI to trade with me at all!

What I found, though, is that the AI WILL trade with you, it just won't trade as easily as it used to. If anything, it trades more like YOU, the player does! You can get weapons techs from the AI... if it's not the most current generation, and you're not opposing each other. You won't likely get colonization techs very easily -- expect a lopsided trade for those, if at all. Expect the most balanced trade from improvement techs (Xeno Factory, Entertainment, etc). Oh, researching yourself diplo techs helps a LOT I've noticed! Last thing, the AI will trade away planets WAY too easily I've noticed -- you can buy multiple planets on the cheap from it, if the planets in question are far from their capital.

Be that as it may, it's certainly possible that tech trading needs more tweaking, but it's definitely getting there.
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
My experiences have been more like Hydros, and I've been disabling tech trading, since it's like playing 1 against all for tech race, which could be an interesting variant - if I had any interest in that type of variant.
Offworld Trading Company
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I haven't messed around with the new tech trading yet, but given what I've read on the forums, additional feedback from the AI would be nice. Stuff on the lines of "We aren't giving up this technology" or "There's no way we're giving this tech to YOU" would be good. Even better, if the trade is almost acceptable, why couldn't the AI make suggestions of alternate trades it would find acceptable?

A civilisation that values information sharing (like I imagine the Terrans or Korx would) would be much more fair in this regard. They would make suggestions that wouldn't be particularily one sided (in their eyes). However, Civs like the Drengin or Yor would probably be very protective of their technology. They'd likely try to steer the negotiations heavily in their favour, if they were willing to trade at all.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It seems like there are two independent questions here:

1) Is tech trading "fair"? That is, will the AI accept similar deals from the player and from another AI. I think Hydro's post clearly says the answer is NO. The player can't get Barren World Colonization in exchange for Xeno Factory Construction no matter how much diplomacy they have!


2) Is tech trading/tech whoring possible as a strategy? My experience with 1.5X says that it still is. You have to have a big diplomacy advantage (think Terrans with +30% racial diplomacy and the Diplo Transmitters here!), and you can't make "fair" trades. But if you get a tech from AI number 1, and then sell it to AIs 2-8, you still come out ahead. You can even trade for things like colonization techs or Planetary Invasion if you're prepared to give the AI a really sweet deal.


So I'd say 1.5X has sort of achieved the worst of both worlds - the tech system is still an exploit if you want it to be, but it's so "unfair" that many players will just turn it off or be frustrated by it. I think this is an area that Stardock needs to massively improve - it's one of the weakest areas of the game right now.

Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
on tougher difficulties, it is much harder to trade techs. Getting Extreme Colonization from races that have the same alignment, warm relations, still cost an arm and a leg. From the upabove debug file seems tech trading now exclusively biased toward the player as AI trading with AI doesn't have the same restriction. Can the developer give some insights on how tech trading is working now between AI vs AI and AI vs Player?
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
THEREFORE – I’m turning tech trading off from now on. I’d be interested if others have had this observation.


This was exactly what I was seeing since the update. I don't care if the AI won't trade techs with me, but I get a little pissed when it is willing to trade amongst 'itself' so to speak. It seems to give techs that it would never entertain in trade with me freely with itself, thus allowing the AI to get the upper hand as I have to research each individual tech and waste time and resources while it can freely trade with itself to be a better challenge to me. This is how I believe the AI is getting a jump on me militarily and I hate it. The only solution at the moment, turn of tech trading... but then I am still being penalized because I find that the minors can be a lifesaver at times when I need some cash and they're willing to purchase techs, whether it's for 100 bc or 100,000 bc.

As an aside, I am also now experiencing a CTD randomly throughout the game and the error message pops up stating that there was trouble writing to memory... I guess I'll have to get a debug out on that one, but I just wondered if anyone else has suddenly been having memory issues accompanied by CTD's.