20K bug?

That is there by design actually. I'm not sure why exactly it's there, but it's been discussed before. Since I rarely have that much money, it doesn't make that much of a differance to me, so I never took the time to read the reasons that were given.

Well that sucks. I may decide not to buy Dark Avatar then since my strategy is to develop an extremely robust economic empire with very good manufacturing capabilities.

20K is just a drop in the buck in my treasury. I can't even rush the production of 2 heavy fighters with 20k.

Yeah, I think I'll definitely stay away from Dark Avatar.

The same system existed in Dread Lords, it isn't new to DA. You may not have noticed it in DL before, but it is there.

If your economy model worked in DL, it will do just fine in DA.

So... what kind of fighters do you build that cost 10,000 bc each? Most of my capitol ships are only in the 10-15 range (if that).

I'm playing DL with patch v1.4.

I'm actually a little puzzled with the cost of my defensive heavy fighter.

It's a small size hulll with the following:

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+ Positronic Torpedeo II (Missile +15)
+ Positronic Torpedeo II (Missile +15)

+ Zero Point Armor (Armor +10)
+ Zero Point Armor (Armor +10)
+ Ultimate Invulnerability (Shield +9)
+ Ultimate Invulnerability (Shield +9)
+ Aereon Missile Defense (Point Defense +10)
+ Aereon Missile Defense (Point Defense +10)

+ Hyper Warp Drive MK. III (Speed +6)

+ Ultra Support (Range +14)

--------------------------------
Ship Stats are as follows (which includes any and all bonuses):

Missile Attack: 101

Shield Defense: 59
Missile Defense: 65
Armor Defense: 65

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According to the shipyard screen:

Ship cost: 1051 bc
Maintenance: 31 bc

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When I go to a shipyard to purchase my "Aegis Defender" is costs 12,642 bc to build it in one turn.

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In case you are curious:

Treasury = 5+ million bc
Weekly Net Income = 60,943 bc (with economic boon event)


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My dreadnought supposedly costs 1,756 bc to build according to the shipyard. But if I want to pay for a rushed production it costs 22,236 bc.

Hi!

It is by design, and it is in DL too. The aim is to penalize money-hoarding. After your treasury grows over 20k your econ ability non-transparently decreases by about 20%. But in DL I remember also having a decrease of about 5% after my treasury went over 10k. That's no more present in DA.

BR, Iztok

Okay, I think I mis-read this and over-reacted. I thought I read if the treasury goes past 20,000 bc it get's cut in half.

Sorry, that is the cost of an older design that I forgot to make obsolete.

My current dreadnought costs 3,532 bc according to the shipyard. However, if I were to rush production by purchasing it in one turn it would cost 47,970 bc.

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The specs are as follows:

Hull Size:
Huge

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Ship Components:

+ Blackhole Eruptor (Missile +25)
+ Blackhole Eruptor (Missile +25)
+ Blackhole Eruptor (Missile +25)
+ Blackhole Eruptor (Missile +25)
+ Blackhole Eruptor (Missile +25)
+ Blackhole Eruptor (Missile +25)

+ Zero Point Armor (Armor +10)
+ Zero Point Armor (Armor +10)
+ Zero Point Armor (Armor +10)
+ Zero Point Armor (Armor +10)
+ Zero Point Armor (Armor +10)
+ Zero Point Armor (Armor +10)
+ Zero Point Armor (Armor +10)
+ Zero Point Armor (Armor +10)
+ Zero Point Armor (Armor +10)
+ Zero Point Armor (Armor +10)
+ Zero Point Armor (Armor +10)
+ Zero Point Armor (Armor +10)
+ Zero Point Armor (Armor +10)
+ Zero Point Armor (Armor +10)

+ Ultimate Invulnerability (Shield +9)
+ Ultimate Invulnerability (Shield +9)
+ Ultimate Invulnerability (Shield +9)

+ Hyper Warp Drive MK. III (Speed +6)
+ Hyper Warp Drive MK. III (Speed +6)

+ Sensors MK IV (Sensor Range +2)
+ Ultra Support (Range +14)

-----------------------------------
Ship Attack & Defense (including all bonuses):

Missle Weapon Attack : 507

Shield Defense: 88
Armor Defense: 459

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I'm guessing my ships are overkill, I have not tested any of my ships in combat yet. Since this is only my 2nd game (playing Challenging level) I'm still trying to understand and master the galactic economy and starship combat strategies.

Can anyone tell me why there is a discrepency between the shipyard cost (3,532 bc) and the actual cost (47,970 bc) if I were to simply buy it out right?

I assume it is the price premium to purchase all the matterial at once and overtime for the shipyard workers. But I would like to know from experienced players what is exactly driving those costs.

Yes, rush-buy is much more expensive, especially for big-ticket items like that. I think the real thing driving the cost isn't any real-world explanation, it's just a game mechanic: you're getting the thing much sooner in exchange for paying much more for it.

Your assumption is indeed correct. It's similar to rush buying a planetary improvement instead of allowing it to build. The concept is that you can always "throw money" at the problem and get things completed faster, however as you've seen it costs quite a bit of money to do this.

Note that at if you're neutral the ship buying premium is a bit reduced. Another thing you can do is to allow the ship to partially build before paying for it's completion. Also one "trick" is to build the hull only and then "upgrade" to the final ship configuration. However, none of this is cheap. If you want to build ships the most cost effective way then build up a lot of planets with a lot of industry.

1. For now I think I'll stick with a Good Alignment because I want access to the best defensive technologies. I still haven't weighed in the cost benefits of superior defense vs. superior offense yet, but I prefer to have a balance for the moment.

2. Yeah, I know partial build trick.

3. I have considered the "empty hull" concept, but I'll probably try that in my next game. While the cost isn't going to be cheap I know I can develop a robust economy with a very high treasury fund to easily absorb the cost.

4. Currently I think half of my planets are balanced somewhere between economic and industrial. The remaining half of my planets either focuses on economic or industrial. I also make extensive use of economic starbases to boost planetary production and research.

In the most extreme circumstances I have overlapped 8 economic starbases over planets that are critical to my manufacturing base so that I can get production production bonus of 196%. In my current (2nd) game, I have 3 planets that each gives between 50% - 60% starship bonus. The production bonus surrounding these worlds allows me to produce my elite capital ships faster than on any other worlds.

Good thing starbases do not cost anything to maintain (unless I missed something) 'cause I have about 115 fully loaded economic / mining starbases.

In my third game I'll probably toss in influence and military starbases into the mix.

I believe balance to be the best. It has to do with the combat system. As your offense goes up, you're rolling a die between 0-weaponMax value. So the average damage you're doing goes up by less and less as you get bigger and bigger weapons. But the defenses are fixed, in effect--assuming you've got the right defenses for the weapons you're attacked with. So there's a balance somewhere.

I have also noticed defense is nice when your ship is seeing multiple combats without healing first. In other words, if you have 2 defense and enter 3 combats, that 2 defense will save you 6 hit points. You don't have to go healing all the time.

I do believe the Good defensive bonus works better on larger maps, because you're paying a one-time cost for that 20% defensive boost. Evil has to pay for the expensive psyonic missiles over and over again.

The economic penalty makes perfect sense, i mean if you put $100 dollars in the bank then they will waive the bank fees because it is below a certain amount, but if you put 1 million in the bank then of course they won't waive the bank fees!

NB i'm from the oposite universe where everything being the oposite to reality makes sense,,, that is why i love the economic penalty.

(extreme sarcasm alert)

I'm still trying to figure out why I never realized this in Dread Lorads only Dark Avator. Did they up this in DA over DL? Maybe I just didn't pay that much attention when I had that much who knows.

Hi!

In current DA version (1.50.59) balanced approach doesn't pay off. Best RoI give both extremes in design: all-weapons or most-defenses.

BR, Iztok