1% Military / 99% Social / 0% Research (focus research)

I tried this strategy (setting 1% military, 99% social with all planets focused on research) after reading about it here in the forums. I'd like people to read and try to verify this data. Here's what I found:

- You can't do this at the start of the game, since you wouldn't be able to build any colonizers at your home planet until social projects are done, so starting off with 50% 50%, or alternating between building social structures and building colony ships is necessary (but 50% 50% is easier, so why not do it)

- You have to set every single planet to research focus, or else you won't get any research done. So even at the start, when you have 50% military 50% social, your home planet should be focused on research. Also, setting a newly colonised planet to research focus will yield 2 tubes.

- The reason you are setting 1% military is to let planets with starports actually build ships. When you have a slider set to 0%, no planet will have anything to do with that area unless set to focus on it (and we are already setting every planet to research focus by default). When you set things to 1% military and 99% social, because social production overflow (unused hammers) goes into military, any planet capable of building ships and not building a social project will have their entire industry building ships. However, when a social project shows up (upgrade, new building, etc), it will soak up the entire production and stop your starport production.

- How this works is, some factory industrial points (shields/hammers) get turned into tubes through the research focus. I'm not sure of the exact %, but it doesn't matter if the factory is working on a social/military project or not, and a factory definitely provides research tubes when you have 0% research funding but set the planet focus to research. I'm going to say a factory produces 30% of its industrial points as research points, because I saw this trend, but I wouldn't swear by that at gun point (but it is definitely something like 30% according to what I calculated).

- At this point, you might think, "I'd rather build labs then, if a factory is 30% efficient producing tubes, why not go straight out labs where you need em?". Well, a few things. First off, let us say you have a research center that is able to produce 8 tubes. ABLE being the key word here. Now, unless you have your spending sliders set to 100% research, that center will never actually produce 8 tubes. It will produce something like 8*researchspending%. However, when you have 1% military 99% social, a factory that has a capacity to produce 8 hammers WILL produce 8 hammers (I have checked various games and made calculations to confirm this). So, let's take a look at this example: one planet with 100 hammers worth of factories (planet factory), the other with 100 tubes worth of research centers (planet research). With 1% 99% setup, the factory planet will produce 30 tubes. The research planet can only produce 30 tubes if the empire wide spending is set at 30% research (the rest divided however between various planets).

- The above example sets us a good check point, 30% research spending. Including and below that mark, a planet full of factories will actually outclass a planet full of research centers. Above that research spending, the planet full of research centers will outclass the factory planet.

- In the real game, the answers are not that simple. First of all, a planet set to full out factory will develop and upgrade rapidly (even exponentially faster) compared to a research planet. Anyone who has played a neutral alignment rushing to neutrality centers knows how long those research planets take to develop, even with 1-2 factories built to help speed up the process. Factory planets do not only get more factories to improve faster, their factories are funded 100%, rather than 60% in the case of a research planet strategy (if, for example, you set your research spending to 40%), increasing their speed of development more. So in addition to the 30% situation, the factory planets wins out here as well.

- Power plants. Fusion powerplants provide 25% industry bonus, equal to research coordination centers. The top tier power plants provide 100% industry bonus (I think). This industry bonus helps the research tube production as well. So, after fusion powerplants, if the factory planet has a powerplant, the 30% research spending mark starts increasing. Dramatically. I mean, at the top tier power plants, with 100% industry bonus, the research planet would probably need 50% or more spending to catch up to the factory planet (not exactly 60% because we're assuming the reseach planet is building a research coordination center).

- Someone playing a 1% 99% 0% economy with no research centers does not have to go past the Xeno research project. Since you are not building any labs, you do not need to upgrade them, and you do not need to research the tech for them.

- A factory planet doing research can instantly turn into a ship producing AND research planet in just 1 turn, provided your economony can support the additional ship building. All you have to do is turn 1 tile into a starport. The research planet could never turn into a ship building planet just like that.


Can someone verify this data? I have used several saves, with a game where I actually played all out factory planets with 1% 99% 0% and compared it to my saves from the classic style. If this is actually valid, I feel like there's something wrong going on here.
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Reply #1 Top
Can someone verify this data?


I can't verify your data with the numbers (I'm not the best when it comes to things like that) but I can say that using the 'guide' that Iztok gave with regards to setting your sliders, I've found that my planets, and my economy, seem to do just fine if I build nothing but factories. The research seems to pan out pretty much the way you said with regards to a factory producing research. This is the first game I've played where I've built nothing but factories and maybe a farm or two to grow the population above and beyond the 6.0 cap. So far it seems to be working well... but you know how that can all change at the drop of a dime. I'll let you know what I come up with when I finish this game.
And of course the obligatory starbase! Didn't want you to think I didn't build them!
Reply #2 Top
This strategy has worked for me in 2 games so far. Medium size, custom race vs. 4 tough AIs. DL, haven't played DA yet. The first game ended in a very quick Influence victory. The 2nd is well on it way to victory. Very solid strat, and not having to keep adjusting focus and sliders made the game play so much faster.
Reply #3 Top
I've had a few medium sized maps with 3 challenging opponents where I tried out this, it worked out pretty well, the research does not seem to be slower compared to classic builds. I can pretty much say with certainty that 30% (or about 1/3) of your manufacturing gets turned into research with this strategy, which is more than enough when you think those factories are working 100%.

One downside is that when you have so many factories, after you complete a social improvement research (a building upgrade, etc), all the planets will start upgrading at the same time, suddenly soaking up a vast amount of credits, so you should be prepared to set your spending slider to less than 100% (or have some savings to remain in the negatives for a few turns) if you are going to upgrade something that you've built on every planet (factories, for example). Social upgrade costs can go as high as double or triple the amount you pay for research each week.
Reply #4 Top
One downside is that when you have so many factories, after you complete a social improvement research (a building upgrade, etc), all the planets will start upgrading at the same time, suddenly soaking up a vast amount of credits


Yes, I realized this the hard way when I forgot to use the governor screen to turn off auto upgrade... ouch!
And in my first reply I meant to say starport, not starbase.
Reply #5 Top
Sounds like an interesting strategy. The only thing with the 1% military 99% social idea is that you won't get any race, planetary, or starbase bonuses to your military production, since when the social production gets shifted over to military you don't get any of the half-price bonus production. I don't know if you will get any bonus research from focusing on research w/o any labs.

Another problem is that you loose the possibility of ever getting more than 4 research points / tile (not counting any (fusion plant, etc.) bonuses or mining industry you've got coming), since an industrial sector produces 12 industrial units - even at %30, you're only getting 4.

If you've got a planet full of Discovery Spheres at your research set at 30%, you're going to 6 research points per tile. Of course, it's quicker to fill a planet with factories than labs (since the factories help build themselves), but once it's full, the planet full of labs is going to give you more research.

Building labs also gives you the flexibility of setting your research higher than 30% at different times. Setting research to 60 or 70% can really help you get ahead on techs when your planets are mostly built-up and you'd rather research better weapons (or factories or diplomatic techs or whatever) instead building more of the same old ships.

It might make the game "easier" since you don't worry about the sliders, but in the end I'd be surprised if it is actually more powerful than building labs.
Reply #6 Top
It might make the game "easier" since you don't worry about the sliders, but in the end I'd be surprised if it is actually more powerful than building labs.


I'll have to let you know how it works out once I finish my current game. True, I am behind in the techs, that I agree with so far. I still find myself constantly checking the 'sliders' so as far as making the game easier, not in my case, not with my play style. It just 'seems' to be an efficient, all encompassing way to 'keep up' with the other civs since the majority of them seem to love starting wars at what to me is the 'most inopportune time'. I mean, to wage all out war when you don't even have a troop transport yet... come on. I've heard of softening up the targets first, but you still need to invade with something! Gotta love those Thalans... "uh, we have other pressing matters at this time, can we have a peace treaty?" Then about thirty turns later they're declaring war again... then asking for peace... and then FINALLY they bring it on. This was from my last game. I gifted everything including the kitchen sink through all of those 'peacetime' turns and guess what... it did nothing for my relations with them. What's that? You say play without the Thalans... maybe another time perhaps but they've been my number one nemesis through nine games so far and I'm not going to settle until they're completely obliterated.
Reply #7 Top

Another problem is that you loose the possibility of ever getting more than 4 research points / tile (not counting any (fusion plant, etc.) bonuses or mining industry you've got coming), since an industrial sector produces 12 industrial units - even at %30, you're only getting 4.

I hope you haven't a nice precursor library bonus (+700%) on one iof your planets ...

if you are going to upgrade something that you've built on every planet (factories, for example). Social upgrade costs can go as high as double or triple the amount you pay for research each week.

Looks like Thalan and the super hive abilities can be a killer for this strategy in DA.

 

 

Reply #8 Top
Focusing on research seems to produce much more research in DA than it did in DL. I have a planet with 156 base manufacturing points and a 110% with a military production ability of 40%. At 100% military spending, this planet has 468 military production. When this planet focuses on research, it makes 350 military production and 339 research (I have 127% research ability). That's a much higher total output than without the focus! Is that supposed to be happening?

Edit: Well, now I'm just confused, because I'm getting a big bonus to all my research (beyond the 127%) that I can't explain. So this really doesn't have anything to do with focus.
Reply #9 Top


Edit: Well, now I'm just confused, because I'm getting a big bonus to all my research (beyond the 127%) that I can't explain. So this really doesn't have anything to do with focus.


I sort of remember getting a research boosting event at one point. I remember it's tendency to drain my finances. Did you see anything like that?

Reply #10 Top
I sort of remember getting a research boosting event at one point. I remember it's tendency to drain my finances. Did you see anything like that?


Nah, I didn't have any event like that. I went and check the saves on several of my games and started some new games with bonuses to my civ's research ability. My best guess is that mining bases on research resources are giving bigger bonuses than listed on the Stats and Graphs screen. Maybe they're multiplying together rather than adding. But I don't want to hijack this topic.

The all factories/no labs strategy is interesting. It's powerful because you can build more factories, and you can run them at 100% capacity all the time. Just make sure you build enough markets to fund the factories. The problem is that you'll never be able to research quickly, because only a portion (25%) of your production gets converted to research, so it's very inflexible. I enjoy switching from 100% military to 100% social, to 100% research depending on what I currently need. I don't want to give that up, unless I can get a lot of tech from another source, like trading, stealing, or conquering.