Best DA race?

Not really sure. I haven't played with them enough times- spent my time on a bunch of Gigantic maps using custom races.

If I based it on Super Ability, the Drath. Super Manipulator can cause complete chaos if necessary. Currently, I'm playing as the Thalans. I like them, and I think I'd vote for them.

The Korath numero uno. If they get powerful enough, they can mop the floor with that spore ship. Plus their production bonus is quite powerful.

I'm more for custom races.

I am pretty much untouchable with the Super Diplomacy ability, although the AI doesn't seem to have the same skill with it.

Dano

Thalans - Super Hive + great economy boost + above average starting planet + great production bonuses

Terrans, bahbee!

. . . I'm biased, though.

The Yor. Period.

Not only do they get an insane amount of natural abilities, but the fact that you can add on to their civ another 10 points is crazy. Then add to that the number of techs they start out with, the miniturization bonus, the Super Isolationists ability to drastically slow down enemy fleets in your territory pus barren world colonization and you've got yourself one crazy-powerful empire.

I think it comes down to a matter of style personally... I am still trying to figure mine out, right now though I play custom for each map I play... small all vic conditions off (except conquest) i go with a military + research bonus civ, bigger maps dictate different circumstances... is tech trading on or off?

if i'm gonna play a predefined race though, it would be the Yor... i've never paid attention to their tech bonuses, but I like the super isolationist... I also like super manipulator of drath, but I have to learn to use it

The way to use Super Manipulator is fun. Here's how.

Don't use it immediatly. Wait until the game gets going, when other races have built a powerful military. Also, build up your economy, influence, and make sure you maintain a small to medium-sized military.

When someone declares war on you, get at least three people against them (More depending on their strength). Preferably people with medium-sized armies. If you can divert them from your empire, you can overrun their defenses and capture a bunch of worlds. If someone offends you, use Manipulator to get them under attack from everyone... except you. That works really good with the Good building that makes aliens surrender to you.

Of course, you could use the manipulator a different way. Build a high-power attack fleet and gang up on... everyone. Turn everyone against each other, and then sweep in to clean up the remaining empires.

The Yor remain the best all around race in the game. A generous helping of the Best/most useful stat bonuses, two of which cant be replicated any other way, one of the best Starting tech spreads, near immunity to cultural influence (you dont think twice about leaving a lone planet awash in a sea of another races color) a highly decent super ability, and ten bonus points to dump on top of everything. Not only are they the best, they are *unbalanced*.


Super-Hive strikes me as the best Superability in the game. If based on that, then the thalans.



I honestly dont see the big deal with the drath supermanipulator ability. Wars are easy to engineer...any race can do so at will. Build diplo trans, and its that much cheaper. No one ever attacks me the entire game (unless I want them to), theyre too busy fighting the wars Ive paid off other people to wage and wearing themselves down, and I never play the Drath. With the proper tech and wonders (that you would build anyways), its cheaper than buying a medium range tech from someone. I defintiely wouldnt pass up the superior stats and other superabilities( that cant be replicated via normal means) in the game for it.

Yor.
I play without the super abilities (I don't find them finely balanced), and even then, Yor.
It's more of a personal preference for me (I like non-organic races), but I think the Yor have a good package as far as racial abilities&techs go.

Cheaper? I usually buy the Diplomatic Translators unless it will be built quickly. That's not cheap, and if I let it be built, it takes up valuable build time. And the engineering of war is not easy as you say. Super Manipulator can get a race that hates you and has a terrible military to attack the most powerful race in the galaxy. Why? I don't know, but I've done it. Can Diplomatic Translators do that?


Aha! Paid off other people to wage. That's the thing. You don't have to pay much with Super Manipulator. Just 100 BC, or maybe two technologies (tech trading). And I haven't played the Drath since Dread Lords. Never in DA. I used the Manipulator in another custom race.

My point is Super Manipulator is an easier way of engineering wars. Yes, you can do it without the ability. I'll admit it would be more powerful if you needed Super Manipulator to suggest wars. But you don't.

I'd rather have Manipulator and Translators then no Manipulator and just Translators. You pay less.

Meh.

With the right techs and a properly specced race , it just aint that expensive. Buying a midgrade weapon tech is more expensive. If your econmy isnt built well, and youre worried about saving a few bucks on that specific transaction, it seems to me going the super diplomat route would be better...youd save money on everything in that menu, not just attack transactions. By midgame with the kind of infrastructure the Yor or the Thalans are capable of if built properly, youre just inventing ways to spend money anyways.

The point is, not that it isnt nice to have, but its just...meh. There are so many better races with better all around stats, and superabilities that stand on their own so much better.


I wouldnt even put the Drath in the top 5 races in the game.

I hate the Drath. They're one of my least favorite races. But I still like Super Manipulator.

My favorite race is the Thalans.

Heh, if you want to be super aggressive, then the Korath are the way to go. Those spore ships and their military abilities allow you to start attacking long before the other races. Even with the Drengin and Yor you have to build up quite a bit to get an advantage.

Korath don't need industrial, research, or econ advantage, and can be well behind in all three categories. Yet they can start taking planets by the bunches. As planets fall, civs fall. And as civs fall, resources open up for ready constructors.


Obviously, I've found the Korath by far the easiest race to play in DA.



I've also played the Drath a few times. You can easily get others to attack each other. But it's difficult to build up on your own. However, if, as some claim, "geography is destiny," then there might be situations where you would want to be the Drath instead of the Korath. I think the Drath are better if you are completely overmatched by the other civs' advantages. And I find that happening quite frequently in DA, which is a good thing!

I like the Yor too. The mini bonus and extreme loyalty, with lots of other bonuses, excellent starting techs, and a nice super ability - and 10 pts to make them further powerful.

*cackle*

Why would we care about loyalty? Have you ever had a planet flipped? If so, shame on you.

Humans. Period.

For all the strategies that got nerfed in Dark Avatar, the new Super Diplomat ability makes Political Victories EASIER THAN EVER. If you play with a maximum number of other races you can trade techs with, you're all but guaranteed to stay in the lead. Hell, Super Diplomat can even duplicate the Super Organiser ability of the Altarians. In my last game at Tough, I was so popular that when the random assassination event made the Yor declare war on me, four other AI empires declared war on THEM in the same turn, and it was very cheap to get the other AIs to follow. I would increase the difficulty, but everything I've read seems to indicate that only makes the AIs more productive (thus making it more productive to manipulate them), not smarter.

So you're not playing metaverse? Because political victories are very easy, and therefore not worth nearly as much.

Heck, I can win a diplo victory with any race.

I do play metaverse...but I always thought tech victories were the limpest (probably cause they take so long). The time I played Crippling (as opposed to Tough as usual), I got a tech victory, but didn't score any higher than my political wins at Tough. I might start trying conquest, then. (Which would be quicker than influence, at least.) I think my point is valid, though - it's kinda disappointing that you can win so easily with diplomacy.

Someone posted in another thread that high-difficulty AIs should get a diplomacy bonus, not just a production bonus. I think that would be a good idea. You'd definitely see less Suicidal victories on the metaverse.

Well, if you look at the altmeta, you can see that the top 3 of 4 characters show playing suicidal exclusively and winning via military conquest exclusively. Diplo victories just don't give the score to justify the time.

Now, I've taken them when I have been forced to! I'll admit that. There have been times when I would have lost had I not allied with the strongest AI.

Never had a tech victory, but I'd be interested to try for one. Just because I haven't yet.

I apologize, I probably should've been more specific there. If you read posts by Suicidal players, you'll see they accomplish those military victories by using extreme diplomacy bonuses to manipulate the super-powerful AIs, getting techs, military help, and other things that they'd otherwise be left far behind in - until they're in a position to start picking off the AIs one by one. If Suicidal-level AIs got a bonus to diplomacy as well as production, those victories wouldn't happen so routinely.

I'll have to jump on the Yor bandwagon as the best overall. They were already one of the best races (possibly even the best outright) in DL, and when you add the incredibly powerful Super Isolationist on top of that, there isn't a whole lot that can really keep up.

I think the best AI, on the other hand, is the Drengin. Not only is their competence at war rivaled only by the Korath, but they always seem to wind up having the strongest economy and infrastructure (out of the AIs) as well.

Meh, I don't know about the drengin AI. The super dominator corvettes make them kind of a paper tiger. They get a high military rating, but then when you go to war you easily sweep aside hundreds and hundreds of nothing ships. The drengin AI is one of the best at making it competitively through the tech tree, that is about all I see.


So can we all agree that Yor, Thalans, Terrans and Korath are the best of the bunch?

Further, can we say that the Torians, Iconians and Altarians (5% starting logistics, seriously - and with what advantages again?) are the worst ones??

Leaving the Drath, Korx, Arceans, Krynn and Drengin kinda in the middle?

Yipes, why do people need every race in every game to be "finely balanced"? Lord forbid one or two races have an edge.