The Korath numero uno. If they get powerful enough, they can mop the floor with that spore ship. Plus their production bonus is quite powerful.

I am pretty much untouchable with the Super Diplomacy ability, although the AI doesn't seem to have the same skill with it.

Dano

Terrans, bahbee!

. . . I'm biased, though.

I think it comes down to a matter of style personally... I am still trying to figure mine out, right now though I play custom for each map I play... small all vic conditions off (except conquest) i go with a military + research bonus civ, bigger maps dictate different circumstances... is tech trading on or off?

if i'm gonna play a predefined race though, it would be the Yor... i've never paid attention to their tech bonuses, but I like the super isolationist... I also like super manipulator of drath, but I have to learn to use it

The Yor remain the best all around race in the game. A generous helping of the Best/most useful stat bonuses, two of which cant be replicated any other way, one of the best Starting tech spreads, near immunity to cultural influence (you dont think twice about leaving a lone planet awash in a sea of another races color) a highly decent super ability, and ten bonus points to dump on top of everything. Not only are they the best, they are *unbalanced*.


Super-Hive strikes me as the best Superability in the game. If based on that, then the thalans.



I honestly dont see the big deal with the drath supermanipulator ability. Wars are easy to engineer...any race can do so at will. Build diplo trans, and its that much cheaper. No one ever attacks me the entire game (unless I want them to), theyre too busy fighting the wars Ive paid off other people to wage and wearing themselves down, and I never play the Drath. With the proper tech and wonders (that you would build anyways), its cheaper than buying a medium range tech from someone. I defintiely wouldnt pass up the superior stats and other superabilities( that cant be replicated via normal means) in the game for it.

Cheaper? I usually buy the Diplomatic Translators unless it will be built quickly. That's not cheap, and if I let it be built, it takes up valuable build time. And the engineering of war is not easy as you say. Super Manipulator can get a race that hates you and has a terrible military to attack the most powerful race in the galaxy. Why? I don't know, but I've done it. Can Diplomatic Translators do that?


Aha! Paid off other people to wage. That's the thing. You don't have to pay much with Super Manipulator. Just 100 BC, or maybe two technologies (tech trading). And I haven't played the Drath since Dread Lords. Never in DA. I used the Manipulator in another custom race.

My point is Super Manipulator is an easier way of engineering wars. Yes, you can do it without the ability. I'll admit it would be more powerful if you needed Super Manipulator to suggest wars. But you don't.

I'd rather have Manipulator and Translators then no Manipulator and just Translators. You pay less.

I hate the Drath. They're one of my least favorite races. But I still like Super Manipulator.

My favorite race is the Thalans.

I like the Yor too. The mini bonus and extreme loyalty, with lots of other bonuses, excellent starting techs, and a nice super ability - and 10 pts to make them further powerful.

*cackle*

Humans. Period.

For all the strategies that got nerfed in Dark Avatar, the new Super Diplomat ability makes Political Victories EASIER THAN EVER. If you play with a maximum number of other races you can trade techs with, you're all but guaranteed to stay in the lead. Hell, Super Diplomat can even duplicate the Super Organiser ability of the Altarians. In my last game at Tough, I was so popular that when the random assassination event made the Yor declare war on me, four other AI empires declared war on THEM in the same turn, and it was very cheap to get the other AIs to follow. I would increase the difficulty, but everything I've read seems to indicate that only makes the AIs more productive (thus making it more productive to manipulate them), not smarter.

I do play metaverse...but I always thought tech victories were the limpest (probably cause they take so long). The time I played Crippling (as opposed to Tough as usual), I got a tech victory, but didn't score any higher than my political wins at Tough. I might start trying conquest, then. (Which would be quicker than influence, at least.) I think my point is valid, though - it's kinda disappointing that you can win so easily with diplomacy.

Someone posted in another thread that high-difficulty AIs should get a diplomacy bonus, not just a production bonus. I think that would be a good idea. You'd definitely see less Suicidal victories on the metaverse.

I apologize, I probably should've been more specific there. If you read posts by Suicidal players, you'll see they accomplish those military victories by using extreme diplomacy bonuses to manipulate the super-powerful AIs, getting techs, military help, and other things that they'd otherwise be left far behind in - until they're in a position to start picking off the AIs one by one. If Suicidal-level AIs got a bonus to diplomacy as well as production, those victories wouldn't happen so routinely.

Meh, I don't know about the drengin AI. The super dominator corvettes make them kind of a paper tiger. They get a high military rating, but then when you go to war you easily sweep aside hundreds and hundreds of nothing ships. The drengin AI is one of the best at making it competitively through the tech tree, that is about all I see.


So can we all agree that Yor, Thalans, Terrans and Korath are the best of the bunch?

Further, can we say that the Torians, Iconians and Altarians (5% starting logistics, seriously - and with what advantages again?) are the worst ones??

Leaving the Drath, Korx, Arceans, Krynn and Drengin kinda in the middle?