Foreign Starbases around my planets

from GalCiv2 Forums
I've posted a thread about this a long time ago, but is there anything that can be done about the AI putting in Starbases around your planets?

I was lucky enough to snag a class 32 world this last game, and apparently the Drath, who I am supposedly friends with, have decided they want it, and have started sticking in Influence Starbases outside it.

I'm not prepared to go to war yet, having a strong military, but no invasion techs, and I don't really want to get into a war yet, so I retaliated by sticking in influence starbases around their homeworld. Of course, they immediately got uppity and demanded that I remove them.

This ticks me off, because there's no way short of war, or paying them a ridiculous sum of money, to get rid of these starbases. I should be able to tell them to bugger off or else the same way they do me. What's worse is that my relations with them are close, so I don't understand this.

The Terrans and the Arceans also like to stick in economy starbases at random in my territory, and the Arceans went so far as to put a military in, yet if I respond in kind, I get threats from them. This is getting really frustrating because it seems I can't play a game where my territory isn't overrun by foreign starbases, yet I can't get rid of them, short of declaring war on everyone, but they can make me remove mine.

Is there no way other than war to get around this? If not, there should be, because it'd be impossible for me to take on four well developed civs at the same time, and my territory is covered in multicolor dots now from where they just keep putting them in.

I have an Arcean and Terran economic starbase parked outside my home planet, and a drath influence base.

Suggestions?
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Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
They can not make you remove yours, though. They can only threaten you, and at worst declare war.

But 'make' you remove them? No. You do have a choice.

It would be nice to be able to use diplomatic means to ask them to remove theirs, but it might be redundant in the end anyway if they refuse. You would still be left with only the option of declaring war and destroying them yourself.
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
This is one problem I have with the game too, the inability to threaten. Whereas it is true that you can't MAKE someone remove a starbase, a friendly warning would be nice, the same way an alien race saying something might make a player paranoid. That would make the AI seem a lot more human to me (even if it technically accomplishes nothing in game terms). Similar negotiations should be allowed for things such as one power growing too strong, and you should be able to say what you need a tribute for, like when a computer player says "We need your assistance to aid in our fight against the Drengin." Even if it's just flavor text, the fact that, when I ask for tribute, the text in the diplomacy screen reads something along the lines of "Give this to us, or else," makes me feel like I'm personally pissing off the other civ. Not that I'm complaining...
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Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
If they're putting economic starbases in your territory, they're likely either trying to improve the results of trade or increasing their ship range.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
i have an idea... a towing module for ships, drag them starbases to your boarder, if you try to drag starbases outside your own boarder it can be considered an act of war.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Reno: I feel you, buddy! I had high hopes for the DA expansions spies, so I could sabotage a starbase without having to declare war on my allies (and frame the drengin, heh) No such luck, it takes away from an otherwise great game.

Karmuno: seconded! perhaps this was too "expensive" in manhours of AI programming to put it in.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Right now just pray the UP issue about starbase taxation for bases outside of your borders show up, and get that sucker voted in.
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
When this happens to me and I'm not ready or willing for war, I offer to buy the starbase in question.

Depending on many factors (influence?, military?, relationship?), they may or may not sell you a starbase.

I've had success buying especially Influence starbases then destroying them.

If they won't sell you can either counter-build your own or do nothing and hope the AI won't hit the magic number (4.0).

I have actually declared war, killed one starbase, and sued for peace. This can have unintended consequences though; like prolonged war. ...
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
A trick i always used to do in galciv1 to gain recource starbases was to surround a starbase with constructors then give a ship to an AI race at war with the starbase owner. As long as you had that ship surrounded it would always attack the starbase.

That trick dousn't seem to work as well in galciv 2. especially since it is normally quite pointless mining galactic recources. They are usually in strategically inconvinient locations, and building on them has little more purpose than providing lovely target practice for AI ships.
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

That trick dousn't seem to work as well in galciv 2. especially since it is normally quite pointless mining galactic recources. They are usually in strategically inconvinient locations, and building on them has little more purpose than providing lovely target practice for AI ships.


I gotta disagree. Galactic resources can give a moderately dramatic boost to your civilization. They're worth mining, investing defenses in, and protecting.

I agree with the annoyance factor of foreign civ's planting influence starbases in my territory, particularly right around my home planet. There should be a dialog option where you can demand their removal, and even be part of tech trading. Their value should be less than asking for ownership of the base.

Foreign civilizations have a large "mood scale" in dealing with you, it'd be nice if you could alter your conversation in a similar manner. That is, when conversing with an alien representative, you could set your responses to one of three levels: friendly, neutral, and hostile. So a demand to remove a starbase could have one of three flavors:

Friendly: "Could you please remove Starbase 1001? We'd be ever so appreciative."
Neutral: "Starbase 1001's locations is unacceptable. Please remove it forthwith."
Hostile: "Remove Starbase 1001 NOW or we will remove it for you"




Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I gotta disagree. Galactic resources can give a moderately dramatic boost to your civilization. They're worth mining, investing defenses in, and protecting.


Everything you say is true except the protecting part. Yes if i was playing at a nice comfortable difficulty level, then i would agree. But i prefer to play at dificulty levels that are highly challenging - in which case i have learnt that galactic recources are indeed pointless unless their near your base or i'm going for a diplomatic victory.
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think this is a great idea, (the three diplomacy flavors) and would be a nice way to improve diplomacy without overcomplicating it. I really want is a way to get rid of the stupid things without going to war, or paying 50,000 credits for them, it's getting intensely annoying.
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Resource starbases, even at the higher levels, are worth protecting and developing, especially the economic and morale resources. Starbase defense techs generally aren't worth it unless the tech levels are low, but simply keeping a combat fleet or two near your critical infrastructure is common sense anyways.
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Hi,
First post.


I was wondering a bit about the starbases also.

I´m still only playing my very first "real" game.
(well...at least If trying to win a influence victory by playing the Yor actually can be called that...)

In any case..
I happened to get the entire corner to the bottom-left of the map all to myself.
Deep, deep into my territory an A.I suddenly builds a starbase on a Influence-resource.

So far I have already seen colonies rebel and join the cause of the greater culture and the same has happened for miningstations on astreoids also. Is that so, however, that starbases never flip ownership due to influence?
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Resource starbases, even at the higher levels, are worth protecting and developing, especially the economic and morale resources. Starbase defense techs generally aren't worth it unless the tech levels are low, but simply keeping a combat fleet or two near your critical infrastructure is common sense anyways.


If you have a combat fleet or two to spare and are able to send them off away from your base to protect a recource starbase, then the level your playing at is too comfortable!

For about the last 10 games i have played, i havn't had an economic recource any closer to my base than five sectors! After a while, you just learn to live without them.
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top


So far I have already seen colonies rebel and join the cause of the greater culture and the same has happened for miningstations on astreoids also. Is that so, however, that starbases never flip ownership due to influence?


Starbases don't flip ownership, no. Maybe see if you can buy that starbase off of the AI? It would help you achieve a culture victory.

Reply #16 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'm not playing masochistic games, if that's what you're talking about, but I always play at tough or better, which is a fairly generally accepted standard. I admit, I do play on smaller maps (medium-large), which is a factor, so I'm never seeing the 5 sector distance you're talking about.
Reply #17 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'm not playing masochistic games, if that's what you're talking about, but I always play at tough or better, which is a fairly generally accepted standard. I admit, I do play on smaller maps (medium-large), which is a factor, so I'm never seeing the 5 sector distance you're talking about.


I just started my first masochistic game from my usual 'crippling'. however all i did was increase the Drengin intelligence to qualify as 'maso'. Then the Drengin are getting their ass kicked by the drath and the alterians, so these ingame circumstances are making things easier for me. Also i colonised a planet with a +700 manufacturing bonus early on. That planet has boosted my dominance beyond normal levels.

No sign of any economic recources again - what a suprise! don't need the stupid thing anyway, they can take the economic recource and stick it where the sun don't shine for all i care!
Reply #18 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Works for you, I guess, but I can't stand not having my production going at or near 100 percent, and the extra tax revenue really helps keep my research and production happening. Given the very large percentage that either a morale or economic resource will add to your economic abilities, even with basic factory techs, if you have access to one in a reasonable place (or you're pursuing a peaceful strategy), its always worth the constructors.
Reply #19 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
if you have access to one in a reasonable place (or you're pursuing a peaceful strategy), its always worth the constructors.


definately!

I remember having an economic recource back in an earlier version of DL a long time ago, it was definately good to have. Since then no economic or morale recources have ever spawned near my territories so i have learn't to survive without them.

Now, i don't even think about them during a game - the only one that i look for are the military ones.
Reply #20 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I was lucky enough to snag a class 32 world this last game, and apparently the Drath, who I am supposedly friends with, have decided they want it, and have started sticking in Influence Starbases outside it.



If you're playing right, your morale and population will be high enough that an influence base around your world won't really make any difference. If it's a problem, then you already have problems. I've never had a planet flipped by the AI, and I'd think you'd have to be in an extremely desperate situation to have that happen.

So don't worry.
Reply #21 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
No, it's not doing anything, it's just annoying to see it sitting there.

Same with the four econ starbases they have put around my home planet that have no modules on them. They're completely useless, but they won't sell them for anything, and they're annoying the piss out of me.
Reply #22 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Hi!
Now, i don't even think about them during a game - the only one that i look for are the military ones.

I'd like to remember you on a fact, that even the small bonus from the first constructor can have a great effect on your empire: a 5% bonus to a 2k economy is 100BC. The constructor used for it is payed in 2 turns.

The only resource I find pretty useless is the influence one, as I usually play in sparse universes with quite low amount of habitable planets. But if I see any other, I try to capture it. If nothig else, then to deny it to the AI.

BR, Iztok
Reply #23 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
A trick i always used to do in galciv1 to gain recource starbases was to surround a starbase with constructors then give a ship to an AI race at war with the starbase owner. As long as you had that ship surrounded it would always attack the starbase.

That trick dousn't seem to work as well in galciv 2. especially since it is normally quite pointless mining galactic recources. They are usually in strategically inconvinient locations, and building on them has little more purpose than providing lovely target practice for AI ships.


From reading the text of GALACTIC resources these are GLOBAL and not just AOE, therefore mining them is GREAT for your race no matter where they are. You just have to protect them better when they are spread out so far and wide.

Reply #24 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'd like to remember you on a fact, that even the small bonus from the first constructor can have a great effect on your empire: a 5% bonus to a 2k economy is 100BC. The constructor used for it is payed in 2 turns.


no doubt true... however i could just as easily benefit from that same constructor with an economy starbase near my planets - which i can defend long term, making it a much better prospect.

From reading the text of GALACTIC resources these are GLOBAL and not just AOE, therefore mining them is GREAT for your race no matter where they are. You just have to protect them better when they are spread out so far and wide.


yea it's the protecting part that is the problem. put it this way, if you can protect a galactic recource far away from your worlds, then thats when you don't need it! By that time, the AI is no longer a serious threat and the recource is only good for helping you mop things up quicker.

Reply #25 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Hi!
if you can protect a galactic recource far away from your worlds, then thats when you don't need it!

Here's the catch: I don't protect them at all. I just take them, and besides the one or two constructors used for some basic armament I also don't upgrade them much. There are two reasons for that:
1) I deny them to other AIs,
2) In case we go to war, they have to send after that SB more than just a simple fighter to kill it. And while their fleet is traveling to my SB, it's not defending their planets! (evil grin)

BR,    Iztok