I agree that whinging is part of the "natural release cycle," but I really do believe this particular release stands out as especially rich with options for that ritual complaining.

I know part of it is that there's so much more hardware these days, but I have little doubt that we're also suffering from a misguided effort to make an operating system that's all things to all people. How can we expect uniformly good experiences from a collection of overstuffed OSs that try to support everyone from computer neophytes to gear freaks to Fortune 500 outfits?

I think perhaps the most interesting thing in this thread is the indications that a great deal depends on your point of view. Are you an IT person, a power gamer, a recovering console junkie, a Visual Studio developer, a UNIX fan, a "Professional Moaner?" That answer will shape your attitude to Vista amost as much as the OS itself.

And fast forward to this day after releasing this thread.

1:
1 year have already passed and yet i havent seen those in any game package

2:
Doesn't every game still make shortcut to desktop ?

3:
Is there really need for this. Just look what you buy for yours kid and what they buy for it too. Is it so hard to do ? Is it so hard to be a dad or mom for your kid and be with them. Problem is that most of the people substitute computer to do their parental jobs and we will see what kind of parent's these kids are gonne be when they grow up. I don't wanna see it.

4:
How many games there are that really outshine their Dx9 modes in Dx10 today ?

5:
Dunno

Vista is just halfbaked Os. M$ just tries to make money off it before they release Windows 7/Vienna which includes all those things that were supposed to be in Vista.

And good riddance what does it cost in shops. 271 euros at least.(Ultimate in English) (about 400 dollars)

Does Windows Vista still force to do new activation if you change your computer parts ? Then no thanks.

I think i will wait for W7, even though i will buy new computer after summer. Xp with Sp3 should be enough for me before W7 comes.

Having a centralized place for games is still a good idea. Granted, it's not particularly important, but it is a good idea.



Parental controls aren't for games you buy your kid; they're for games you buy yourself and that you don't want your kid to be playing. Just like parental controls for DVDs and so forth; you prevent your children from watching something you'd rather that they didn't, while still allowing yourself to do so when they're not around.



Honestly, DX10 isn't so much about the API or the capabilities of the hardware as a fundamental new Vista-style Windows Graphics Driver. Pre-Vista, Windows could not guarantee the contents of video memory if you switched applications; that's why if you leave a game that's running and come back, odds are it will take a long time to task switch back into it. It's doing more than just memory paging; it is actually loading every texture and mesh back into video memory. Vista drivers provide hooks that allow Windows Vista to manage video memory and page it in/out as needed on a per-process basis. So Vista can actually guarantee video memory to applications.

#5 is, of course, nonsense.



No, it isn't. Vista's biggest problem (besides the system requirements for Aero) is the fact that XP is just so good. Vista isn't worse than XP; it simply isn't that much better for most things.



Depends on which parts you change. Usually, no. If you change CPUs and motherboards, it may. Then again, it may not.

BTW, reactivation is just a phone call, and toll-free to boot. Considering that you just did a processor/motherboard/etc swap, adding a phone call to that isn't particularly onerous.

And XP does the same thing, so its not like you're avoiding anything by sticking with XP.

WGA does, very occasionally, come back with a false positive, which means that Windows thinks you've pirated it and therefore stops working nicely. That typically requires a phone call as well to resolve.

BTW, on the first page, someone mentioned:



In fact, this is a very good thing. 99.9% of all system crashes in stable OS's like XP or Vista come not from the OS itself, but crappy drivers. Sound drivers (hello, Creative Labs) are the #1 culprit, which is why Vista no longer supports DirectSound through hardware. Requiring that drivers be signed ensures that the drivers are of at least reasonable quality and that Microsoft has tested them for reasonable robustness.

Microsoft knows that nobody blames drivers for problems that drivers cause; they blame Microsoft. If Windows hard crashes, Microsoft is to blame. And since crappy drivers are the result of 3rd party developers, Microsoft has decided to impose some penalty on crappy driver writers. Like not being able to work in 64-bit Vista. Creative Labs, due to their habit of making absolutely atrocious drivers, got kicked out entirely.

Microsoft is simply putting the blame for instability (and onus to repair) where it belongs. No need to fault them for that.

I like OSX10 best. => Haven't tried the new one that just came out. Unfortunately, no one makes games for it, so I only use it on my laptop which is my utility machine (burning dvd's, word processing, portable needs, etc...). Plus, you can easily dual boot w/windows xp/vista, w/the free included 'boot camp' to run windows natively on the mac machine.

My main rig, however, runs vista, because I'll use whatever OS I need to do play all the games I want to play. I get a computer to run software, so I'll use the OS that can run that software, even if its not my favourite OS.

Yup. That's the effective monopoly situation in a nutshell. Unfortunately, the foundations of antitrust law were laid in response to monopolies in comparatively simple fields such as oil and steel production and railroads.

We have a long way to go before citizens, software giants, and regulators can play nicely together. Ordinary IT users understand far less about the tech than our forebears knew about oil and steel. Titanic software firms are more interested in driving customers like cattle than they are in listening to them. And regulators are still spending too much time trying to play catch-up in both their knowledge of the tech and their ability to play the political game.

I'm sorry Frogboy, but those (5) "reasons" to like Vista that you listed are laughable at best. The guy that quoted your post and replied initially... I share his sentiments to the letter!

Now: I have a monster project in XP in DX9 land in the works...

(built 1-08... completely up to spec)

XP
Intel Q6600 2.4
EFX 8800 GT Alpha Dog Edition w/512
X-Fi Sound Blaster
2 GBs ram

I have roughly 180+ titles installed at the moment... oldest one is Quake 1. I have a 95% win ration right now... ONLY two that won't work at all (still workin on gettin 'em to work though) Thief II and Silent Hill 2.

Everything else runs... and 90% of them run 100% the way they're supposed to. I've got a small handfull that don't respond to AA being forced through the V. Cards' control panel and a couple that don't run perfectly (framerate wise), but those are specific issues with those games not liking either my Quad Core CPU or my 88 or the 169.21 driver that my 88 is running on.

My Project Machine is an offline machine... ZERO anti-virus software installed (only install AVG somethin er other when I need to get online for a patch, or when I installed Windows/etc), and ZERO cd/dvd copying software of ANY kind.

I well understand the 'swing' of OSs and their general nature is to gravitate from one to the other over the course of time.... if that wasn't the case... we wouldn't have XP/etc.

I have ZERO faith that I'd have the same solid 95% win ration with the 180+ games I'v installed if I was running Vista... not in a million years could you make me believe I'd have luck this good.

IF/when Microgay decides to somehow 'merge' the PC and console markets... essentially "edging" out the Developers that want to continue to produce games for the PC... effectively killing PC Game Development - I will care not.

Why... because by the time I'm done with this project (end of the year most likely), I'll have EVERY top notch PC game starting with DX6 all the way up to todays DX9.0c games. I WILL NOT rely on Microsoft to further my vegetation time by telling me which OS I 'must' accept/etc.

Will I eventually build a monster Vista machine for DX10 specific titles (I'm worried the new Alone in the Dark is gonna be gay like Shadowrun and Hagay2), most likely... BUT ONLY if Microgay doesn't decide to come out with the even newer (what is it) Windows 7 er somethin in the near future.....

Bottom line: with the multitude of solid and beyond fantastic DX9 titles available for the PC - there is no reason not to be able to have a lifetimes worth of gaming ready by the end of 08.


Fyi people - THIS is the BEsT year to buy PC games... Ebay is killer... Half Price Books in your area, and regularly checking/watching the stock at Best Buy and Frys will yield you your favorite titles for no more than $30... and at Half Priced Books... everything is a STEAL!!!

Why anyone wants to spend thousands of dollars on a TV, and then be subjected to games w/no AA, and no V-Sync, AND to have a minimum selection of gaming to choose from in the first place, coupled with the $50-60 price tags on ALL console games - is a real mystery to me.

The old excuse of, "well... console games don't need updates, don't need to be configured, yada blada" - lol.... now, the same BS in regards to bugs/rushing titles to the shelves too fast/etc is applicable for console gaming, and I fully welcome it, HA!

Let 'em pay more for the game, let 'em be 'stuck' with crappy performance if the game has no patch and they have no way to 'tweak' the .ini/.cfg files/etc because it's a console, and let 'em think they're getting the better experience.... why.... lol... because it's what's making PC Games SO cheap for the last couple years.

PC Gaming can die in 2009 for all I care... why... because by that time, REGARDLESS of Microgay trying to enforce and dictate to ME HOW I WILL ENJOY blobs on the screen, I will have amassed the most well rounded PC Gaming Build to date and it will encompass the majority of quality FPShooter, RTSer, RPGer, Isometric Shooter, 3rd Person, and Arcade games made for the PC to date.

DX9 and XP will continue to give me enjoyment LONG after Windows Zista5000 comes out,


Chr*s




p.s. To the guy that mentioned Galciv possibly "eventually making it's way to console" - ummmmm, I'm sorry that you're a PC Gamer with thoughts like those.... go get your head checked.

Your willingness to use the word "Gay" as a pejorative shows that you are not a person worth listening to. Good day, sir!

Looking at Apple v. MS stock performances lately, MS is having troubles. Sales for macbooks (of which I own one) and ipods are way up, earnings greater than expected. MS, earnings are sadder than expected, how many of you own a zune?

You willingness to ignore an entire argument is predicated on the fact that you're so open minded.   

Take your flame and go look up sarcasm.

Later Toto,


Chr*s






next

I have a T-Mobile phone from 2004. It was given to me free at the time of purchasing my plan. You couldn't pay me to spend more than $100 on a phone..... ever. Same as spending more than $40 for a pair of jeans.... simply won't do it... but there are people who will.

Call me Mr. Thread Killer.