Need to have minimum military ? » Forum Post by dthif1980

Unfortunately it may be too late to win the war at this stage. While trade and the like is an admirable path that will instill you as a beacon of hope and goodwill in the galaxy, 8 out of 10 times you will end up dead.

But that doesn't mean don't do what your doing, its the one of the best strategy's out there, but it is good to have at least a small(ish) military, consisting of a few medium ships and even a couple of large ones just to keep any other civ off your back and to protect your trade routes etc.

Researching military techs while you are under attack may work, but in all likelihood you'll be a memory before any real battleships get out there.

Other civs won't come near you probably because they are on good terms with the Terrans and don't want to cheese them off.

If you want to avoid a war all through the game then, as I say, build a military (even a small one), snuggle up to the most powerful races in the galaxy for protection, and most of all put so much trade out there the Galaxy would collapse should it all go away.

Right now, if you want to stop the war, go to the Terrans and really lick boot.

Well, good luck!

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Mistralok1

Join Date 05/2006

+22

WWW Link This says it all.

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I have to agree. If you have no Military, usually after the end of the second year, the other Civs tend to declare "Open Season" on your beloved Empire. Sometimes you can get away with it for a pretty good amount of time, but once your economy reaches a certain point... Temptation and Opportunity seem to be the operative words of the day for the AI.

I try real hard to keep my military power at about 50% of the strongest military in the game, if I am going for a "non aggressive" type of win. You want to at least pose somewhat of a threat. Otherwise the AI will feel like they can completely eradicate your kind from the map and occupy your planetary gems with little to no resistance, and suffer hardly any casualties.

Think of it this way if you want to maintain that non aggressive mentality in your game. You are building your military to protect peace, not start a war.

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WWW Link This says it all.

Hilarious.

A fully armed battle group is often the most effective diplomatic tool.

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build plantary bases

like the ones in my posts in show your ships post

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If you really want to run with zero military you need to set yourself up so that you can purchase the ships you need when you need them.

You will need a very good economy to build up a large cash reserve, and you will need to focus heavily on research so you have the required techs before you need them. If you have to research military techs once war is declared, you have lost.

There is no way to totally avoid a war. Someone, at some point, will call you out.
If you are ready for them, as soon as war is declared you can design and buy a good fleet of ships in that turn to be ready in the next turn to stomp on some bugs (or float some korx, whatever).

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Yes, you have to have some kind of "minimum" military. Even your best galactic "buds" are going to start eyeing your worlds if you don't protect them.

Take this with a grain of salt as I'm not one of the guru's - I just finished my 3rd game on the Tough setting. As it seems almost impossible to start out on an equal footing with the AI - they have so many more techs and research bonuses in the beginning than I do (Terrans) - I focus on Diplomacy, Trade, and Economics. I don't bother researching any weapon techs, just keep my eye on the other civs, and buy them when they become available. I also make sure to assign BC to espionage immediately after meeting a new race, even if its only 1 BC.

Since my civ is so "low ranking" military-wise, they don't consider me a threat and sell 'em freely. I make sure along with high diplomacy I also go early for the Galactic Wonders, especially the Bazaar.

Probably the biggest screen for me, in the beginning to middle of the game, is the Foreign Relations screen, where I carefully monitor other civ's attitudes towards me. If it drops to Wary I hurriedly either get a new weapons tech & build some ships or try to up my Diplomacy. It also lists the reasons they don't like you - and if its possible to fix one of those I do that (like "Alarming Influence").

This is kinda cheese, but one strategy is to see who's likely to be the strongest civ after the colony rush. See what alignment they're likely to become and emulate it.

Another good screen is the Civilization Stats & Graphs - I see where I rank in various aspects, especially militarily, and try to keep up while building a strong economy.

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I usually try to go for a major technological advantage early on, leaving my military behind. Once I have enough planets I begin building "Targs" as I call them; freighters crammed with nothing but weapons to bolter my military rating. In the meantime I use my diplomatic advantage to keep everyone happy and trade technologies to keep my 100% economy going.

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Hi,

I tried to play a game without any military devotion. I am a "Custom Race - Technologist" and I concentrated my researches on trade, diplomacy, all other techs avoiding space militarization.

I was to a point where I had a extremly good economy, with "friendly" relations. Then, suddently, the Terran Alliance started a war against me. I cannot battle them, because I am really weak. I cannot form alliances, because no other civs wants to come "close" with me, even with repeted incredible gifts (tech and money). How can I get them close ?

So, the thing I must do it research as fast as possible military techs and try to build ships that will match them.

What is the trick ? How do you play when you want to avoid wars and let's say, win by diplomacy ? Or win in my game approach ?

Please, I need some tips
Thanks in advance.

I am afraid you are in trouble at this point. The only thing, you maybe able to pay another civ to attack you enemy. As I have learned in CIV3 and CIV4 I have also learned in GalCiv2, even if you are not at war and don't plan on going to war, you still need a military around. It don't have to be big, just nicely advanced. This makes other races say..."man, look at that, I would hate to face off against that vessel." In other words, it earns you respect from the other races. So go ahead and play diplomatic all you want and tech up, just keep a repectable military around just in case. A peacetime military keeps war away and this is where a warship can be called "peacemaker" or "peacekeeper". I once seen a picture over at northrop grumman that had a picture of an aircraft carrier and under it, was written, 80,000 tons of dilomacy. Kind of like what Mighty Mongoose was getting at above, cool post there.

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start trading for military technologies, from how it sounds your in it deep... but there's always hope against the AI, once you aquire some weapons devote all spending to your military 60-70% on the slider...you may need to micromanage each colony to military production...your gonna take some losses but build up quick and take it all back!
you must keep up some sort of military or the AI will try to take you out every time

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I generally find myself playing like dthif1980 above: Go for the trade right away, build-up/trade research, and generally play nice. Military is nearly non-existent.

However, at a certain point - say, about a year in game time - I beeline the Influence techs and then start converting planets of the strongest military faction with starbases. While thats going on, I go for the diplomatic branches of research. After a point, all races will look at you with that "deer in the headlights" look whenever you talk to them. They will just flat-out LOVE you, man! (humans anyway). My wars are usually short ones as there usually seems to be one or two races who "feel my pain because I'm so awesome."

Don't forget...you can also bribe another race into declaring war on someone, especially with the money and diplomacy to back it up.

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Philocthetes

Join Date 10/2003

+153

There is no way to totally avoid a war. Someone, at some point, will call you out.

You can at least put it off for a *very* long time if you combine tech and econ leadership with a middle or upper-middle military ranking. I suspect this situation can be pretty different depending on your map settings, but I've had a few DL games on huge maps where the first time I had to use a warship, I was sporting ship techs from near the end of the tree.

On a related note, if a diplo win is your goal (I'm trying that in my current DL game), your stupid allies can get you in a mess that makes no sense and forces you to either get in a fight or take a step backwards on your victory path. This is why I've joined the crowd around here who are pestering the devs for some more options on the Diplo Contact page.

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It is untrue that there is NO way to avoid war. I have played games without going to war.

A lot of it often also depends on the size of the galaxy and the set up of stars on the map. How much exploration and economy you have going from the start help as well. I tend to use a custom race that focuses on certain aspects, which may help or may not *shrug*

However the fact that it IS possible aside. It is unlikely, and honestly a smart diplomatic mind knows who much military might is an influence in diplomatic policy and negotiation. Any sound strategy should either include military, or a method to counter act the military of others. (i.e. buying their ships and planets, or paying off races to fight each other, or setting up strong trade ties.)

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one time I got a huge amount of techs with all the races on a small map, and declared war on everyone and made everyone declare war on each other. it was awsome

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I don't think the OP is in it deep. Like has been said before, just bribe another AI into declaring war on your enemy, and buy some time. One huge advantage of having no military is that other friendly civilizations aren't afraid to trade you their best military techs. It doesn't take much military before they won't do that anymore. Also, if you start seeing waves of fleets coming your way, just plant a military starbase and put your foot down there. You can beat forces 2X-3X larger if you have good starbase assistance--especially if you have Micro Repair Bots.

Actually, I would take more security in my own industrial might than I would my standing military. Ships go out of date--rapidly. And then you have to pay a lot to maintain & upgrade them. But the ABILITY to produce the latest ships at any time--that's useful even in peacetime. In fact, one thing I commonly do is invest ~150 bc's in some ship I'm building (usually a constructor), but not quite complete it. Then when the time comes, I bump up my weapons research, switch the ship I'm producing, and crank something out. It's a lot the way the USA worked right before WWI and WWII.

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He has a point. I don't bother with ships until late LATE into the game...but yes if you started a constructer as suggested and then waited on it, you could do wonders.

I have a large economy and industrial capacity in my current Huge game. Lots of Starports...if it comes to it I can crank many ships out of mulitple locals and quickly mount a counter on my enemy.

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It is possible never to go to war in a game, and it's even highly likely if you're successful in a peace-focused victory.

The way to create peace is to prepare for war. I can almost guarantee you that no one will pick a fight with you if you have the baddest military in the galaxy. Additionally, if you're supporting this military spending with the most extensive trade network bar none - well then no one is going to fight you.

This is one of the main problems I've been having with playing this game. The AIs are so wary of going to war! I build up my army, embargo and demand the heck out of a few guys, give them Ethics to that they KNOW they hate me, and still no one wants to fight.

I've been relegated to Influence and Diplomatic Victories I don't know how many times. I think Terran abilities are naturally geared against proactive invasions.

As for the OP, yes, you usually do need a minimum military presence to discourage other civs from trying to kill you, even if it's only a pair of Small raider fighters on every planet.

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If you don't want to put much into military, go with a Spin Control Center. It will make the military ships you have on one planet "look" five times stronger to the enemy. Depending on the size map you play, this can go a long way to giving you a respectable military rating without putting almost any effort into a military (you could buy a few ships from someone else and then base them on your spin control world, for instance)

Spin Control gives you another powerful tactic if you have tech trading turned on. If your military outclasses another civs by enough, they will stop trading you military tech. However, if you have a spin control center you can easily change how big you look. If you want to trade for military tech, launch all of your ships from the spin control world (so they drop to 1/5 strength in the AIs eyes). Trade for the weapons you seek. Then put all of your ships back on the spin control world (to avoid people declaring war on you).

The spin control center only works for one planet, and a planet can only have 10 ships in orbit, so there are some limitations for this strategy. It loses effectiveness when there are more than 125 or so planets out there, because militaries in general are larger. Also, because of the 10 ship limit, larger hulls with as much as you can put on them look even meaner than 10 small ships. If you need a super quick boost to your military rating to effect diplomacy, kick out cargo hulls packed with nothing but your best weapons on your spin control world, this typically gives your military rating a dramatic boost quickly. (Use as an emergency when one -our military strength goes to --our military strength)

Spin control center is gained from total majesty. The diplo line can also give you diplomatic translators and (if I remember right) galactic showcase, both which improve your diplomacy further, and help keep aggressive civs off your back.

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If you don't want to put much into military, go with a Spin Control Center.

Good idea !

Thanks to all for your answers

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I tend to have a "defenseless" strategy. It is 1 May 2230 in my current game (second game) set on challenging difficulty, that's year 5 or 6. I have absolutely no military ship other than the survey ship everyone starts outs and two unarmed scout ships.

Interestingly enough the other races will not trade military tech with meet because they state it is not wise to trade such tech with a race that already has a power military. I find that to be a bit confusing. Perhaps they are taking into account all my economic and resource starbases into account along with the fact that I am constantly producing Constructors.

As in my last game, I tend to build my military late into the game. Surprisingly enough not once has any of the races suggested I give them a "gift" in my current game.

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