Gravity is also limited by the speed of light. Assuming crazy, rule bending stuff like warp drives and black holes aren't in the equation, no information (that includes forces) is ever detected faster than light from the source can reach it.

This is isn't my area of expertise, and I have already had a couple of drinks, but you're saying that if the sun vanished, we would still feel it's gravitational effects for at least another 8 and something minutes? Is there any practical way to prove this?

Gravity is also limited by the speed of light.

Are you sure about that?

Ok so if the sun suddenly turned into a super massive black hole, we would not have to worry about it for 9 minutes? an we would still recieve our full 9 minutes of light - considering black holes suck light in?

A warp drive doesn't merely fold space, that folding (one way at the front and the opposite in the back, hence the need for exotic matter) actually moves the ship, without actually moving it! It gets around the light speed limitation by essentially moving spacetime itself, not accelerating the ship. The ship inside the bubble would feel no acceleration and would experience no wierd relativistic effects from said acceleration. You would actually need no kind of engine other than the warp drive to move somewhere.

Well, warp propulsion IMO has about the same chances to become a reality as time travel. It's a good subject for a debate, but let's face it. If you fold space by whatever means, the entire universe will be affected. Now imagine space being folded at multiple points, at the same time, each instance warping space in its own way. Chaos.

A possible counterpoint to this, though, is that even really powerful fuel based systems are going to run out of fuel eventually. Most rockets burn if up pretty quick, and coast a lot of the way to their destination. An Ion drive would last as long as it's components and energy source,

What?! You're not telling me that a 50,000 year long journey through space is a silly thing, are you? Yikes!   

Also, as for a warp field collapsing... again, totally speculative, but chances are that a warp field could dissapate fairly quickly after being formed, if not immediately. I don't think there would be any adverse effects... the ship would be encased inside the bubble in unwarped space, so no tidal forces or additional gravity would be acting on it.

*Everything* is speculative, so your guess is as good as mine   

I read a paper on the feasibility of the Alcubierre drive, and one of the problems with it is that there is no way to tell what's ahead of you, and barring some REALLY sophisticated and powerful sensor equipment, you wouldn't be able to accurately plan out such a journey ahead of time (especially over, say, parsecs of space and several weeks of transit). The solution? Multiple, smaller jumps, checking your heading each time, which you might end up doing anyways if the warp bubble collapses fast enough, anyways.

Hmm, Proxima Centauri is just around the corner, and in the near future we'll have a pretty good idea of what the closest star systems are like. Once there we'll map the surrounding star systems, and gradually build a Galactic Guide Book, just like in a game    So, unless you try to jump to uncharted territory, I don't see any complications. Of course, it depends on how exactly you specify destination coordinates...


BTW, the sun cannot just "vanish", so it's basically a moot point...

On the original subject, combat in DA has now been changed so that all attack rolls are 0-max.

On the original subject, combat in DA has now been changed so that all attack rolls are 0-max.

There was an original subject?

On-topic : Yay! Now 1 plasma is worth 2 lasers!

On the original subject, combat in DA has now been changed so that all attack rolls are 0-max.

Yes, but if someone launches a singularity at me, will I feel the gravitational effects before I see it hit me or not????


Just kidding. Thanks Kyro, I think that was a great change to the combat system.

BTW, the sun cannot just "vanish", so it's basically a moot point...

The sun dissapearing is impossible as far as anyone knows of course, your comment is pointless, know one is arguing it can dissapear!

I just used it as an example to ask a question about gravity, so i really don't see what purpose your "moot point" comment serves?

Hey Kryo, was the combat roll change made effective in the latest beta, or is it yet to take effect until the next beta?

Hey Kryo, was the combat roll change made effective in the latest beta, or is it yet to take effect until the next beta?

I don't think there are going to be any more beta builds. It will be that way in the release version, though.

The sun dissapearing is impossible as far as anyone knows of course, your comment is pointless, know one is arguing it can dissapear! I just used it as an example to ask a question about gravity, so i really don't see what purpose your "moot point" comment serves?

Actually, it could disappear, we just wouldn't feel a difference in gravity. The EARTH could disappear in the same way... stick a singularity into it massive enough to create a black hole, and it'll eat up the sun/earth in a remarkably fast amount of time! You wouldn't notice a gravitational difference, though, because the same ammount of mass would be there, and your distance from the center of that mass wouldn't change at all... if you were orbit, at least.

Anyways, it's a question I actually asked my physics prof, once. Basically, NOTHING can make any effect upon another object faster than light can travel between those objects... it is the speed limit of our universe, and gravity is not excepted. The force of gravity is theorized to have a carrier particle like the electromagnetic force (carried by photons) and strong nuclear force (gluons are the carrier partical that binds quarks together). This theorized carrier particle is called a gravitron.

And, sorry about dragging the thread so horribly off topic!

Well, warp propulsion IMO has about the same chances to become a reality as time travel. It's a good subject for a debate, but let's face it. If you fold space by whatever means, the entire universe will be affected. Now imagine space being folded at multiple points, at the same time, each instance warping space in its own way. Chaos.

Naw, totally unrelated. The space warping in question is precisely the same kind of warp in space that you, I, the earth, or the sun cause. It's not folding... its the same effect as gravity has. The only exotic portion of it is that while the space in front is warped the traditional way, the space BEHIND needs to be warped in an opposite way from what gravity does. This'd probably require exotic matter/energy like whatever is accelerating galaxies away from each other, or some kind of crazy work with quantum uncertainty, but it's theoretically quite possible. Time shouldn't be effected or much related to this.

Time travel is something I haven't researched much, but it's worth noting that time may not be working like we think it does. I've read some crazy stuff about experiments where the consequences preceded the action...

Anyways, it's a question I actually asked my physics prof, once. Basically, NOTHING can make any effect upon another object faster than light can travel between those objects... it is the speed limit of our universe, and gravity is not excepted. The force of gravity is theorized to have a carrier particle like the electromagnetic force (carried by photons) and strong nuclear force (gluons are the carrier partical that binds quarks together). This theorized carrier particle is called a gravitron.

Thanks for the nice answer starstriker! I didn't know science dousn't know the exact nature of the force of gravity. I always thought it was somthing science would know and i just hadn't heard about it.

Can i ask another extremely annoying question?

Ok o heard recently about some experiment... i don't know the exact details but apparantly they could make some kind of atomic particle 'copy' the exact movement of another atomic particle somewhare else. So my question is... did the second atom react instantaneously to the movements of the first atom IE fater than light response?

What you're talking about is quantum entanglement. Nope, it's still bound by light speed... and it takes some very advanced techniques in order to preserve the entanglement without destroying the information. The experiment you're talking about I think was one where they beamed information across the Danube (or am I mixing up the river?) I forget the method they used to maintain the entanglement, but it was pretty neat stuff... entanglement based communication has some serious applications, one of which is security. You can't intercept the transmittion without destroying the information it was carrying.

If you want to know more, you'll have to do some more research on entanglement, wikipedia being a good place to start. I don't know too much about it... any research I've done on it has been on the casual side.

Also, two more things:

1) No need to drop the hints, I wasn't being mean to you earlier (far too strong a word)
2) Yeah, gravity is one of those things that drives scientists nuts... a force that we know is there, but can't find a way to explain well enough! No one understands it fully. Even more irritatingly, there is not yet a quantum theory of gravity, hence, the incompatibility between relativity and quantum mechanics.

Though, as an interesting note, Einstein figured out that it is experimentally impossible to tell whether you were accelerating or under the influence of gravity. The thought experiment he used is this... consider:
a)From the perspective of the person inside an elevator, the experience of free falling is EXACTLY the same as that from a spaceship that is not accelerating
b)Likewise, you can't tell the difference between a stationary elevator (where gravity holds you to the floor) and a spaceship accelerating at 9.81 m/s^2.

Therefore, the effects of gravity are experimentally impossible to separate from the effects of acceration.

Other scientists just thought it was an interesting bit of trivia, but he used that thought experiment to figure out things like how light bends with gravity, and ultimately his entire theory of general relativity.

Honestly, the way that man went from one concept to another like that is mind boggling.

Honestly, the way that man went from one concept to another like that is mind boggling.

Naturally, of course, it's all connected.

Speaking of relativety... i considered a little side issue some years back;

I was looking at my 30cm ruler, i thought, imagine if this ruler extended out forever across the universe in both directions from where it is in my hand? I asked myself, ok at what point on the ruler am i? am i in the center still? Then i realised that if this ruler has no ends, then there is no centre, or any other point of measure for that matter. Yea so no ends therefore no centre rite?

So yea um it seems like our existance really isn't possible since we seem to exist at a point in space, which is impossible because space extends out forever??

Next thing i considered was time... if i remove time from the equation then yes it is possible to measure any point on a ruler that extends forever - since without time forever has no meaning.

I then considered if the universe is surrounded in a giant 'time' bubble if you like, so although the universe extends out forever, time does not??

I also considered the posibility of somehow 'slipstreaming' outside time in order to travel instantly to distant galaxies?

Naw, totally unrelated. The space warping in question is precisely the same kind of warp in space that you, I, the earth, or the sun cause. It's not folding... its the same effect as gravity has. The only exotic portion of it is that while the space in front is warped the traditional way, the space BEHIND needs to be warped in an opposite way from what gravity does. This'd probably require exotic matter/energy like whatever is accelerating galaxies away from each other, or some kind of crazy work with quantum uncertainty, but it's theoretically quite possible. Time shouldn't be effected or much related to this.

Contradiction in terms comes to mind, can't really tell why...   
We could be discussing the unification theory ad eternum here, but I think that's too delicate an issue for this forum.
Also, about the sun disappearing issue, I was talking about an instantaneous thing, which seemed perfectly clear from the question posed...

Which terms, specifically?

Well, the bottom line is that the Alcubierre drive doesn't include significant temporal effects. Not if you're inside or outside the warp bubble.

'Course, with the way space is warped at the edges of the bubbles, things could get crazy if you wandered in there. Not that you'd last long...

Nevermind. deleting post.

In the final build of Dark Avatar, attack rolls will roll 0 - max attack.

In the final build of Dark Avatar, attack rolls will roll 0 - max attack.

"Step right up all you gamblers, casino dark avator is open for buisiness!"

"Security to administartion, security to administartion", "please escort all these strategists from the building".