Surrender monkeys

I thought there was an option to stop surrendering?

Otherwise i would imagine it is difficult to give the AI the ability to surrender more reasonably. Simply because every game is different and progresses differently. So you may well program the AI to surrender intelligently under set conditions, but how to do this for conditions that vary so widely from game to game?

Was this DA Beta2? Did the surendees have zero military and it was near to start of game?

I had something similar happen with the above conditions pehaps it's something Stardock needs to look at.


Lenius.

I'm still finishing my last beta 2 game on a huge map, but I'm pretty sure I see changes (improvements?) in the AI surrender behavior. I hope that 2A has not somehow undermined progress in this area.

Seth, do you have a few more specifics about why the surrenders you saw made you think they were ridiculous? I'm pretty sure details in the feedback can help the devs.

Seth, were the Drath in that game? Did you get lots of messages from races declaring war on each other at the behest of an "unnamed power?"

If that is the case, I suspect the Draths' Super Manipulator ability is causing races to declare war when they have almost no military. Then, after a few turns, those races realize they don't have the power to win the war and chicken out.

IF that is the case, it seems like some balancing of that ability is needed. If not, then something must have changed in the surrender code.

The Drath are still in my current b2 huge map game, and "a while ago" I saw a fairly high volume of war-for-unnamed-power messages.

MarshalO's question makes me wonder whether the Epic Generator effort included a basic map I could use to dig into the details of a question like this. With a b2 game, do I have an XML (or other) file that's both relevant to the OP's point and that I could try to read in plain language?

Lucky the races in Babylon 5 weren't as chiken as these guys or the shadows would have had a much easier ride!

I’ve had the same problem in a beta 2a game. Huge galaxy, tough ( random intelligence) 8 races.
There are three major players in the game, the Korx, the er.. (new guys –insectoids I forgot their name) and me. The altarians, Torians, Thalan, Korath have all surrenderd to either the Korx or the newguys after ten turns of warfare with the one of these races. The weird thing is that they all decide to surrender to the race that is attacking them instead of one of their allies or species with the same ethics. It is one of my most interesting game to date because I’v have a 60 turn war going with the Korx which I’m slowly winning. It’s been ages since I last had a competing empire which was just as far along the tech three as me.

Was this DA Beta2? Did the surendees have zero military and it was near to start of game?

This happened to me last night. 9 opponents, tough. No one had any military, I hadn`t even researched UT when the Humans popped up with somthing like 'a third party has funded me to get rid of the Korath ' cant remember exact wording .

Then next turn same thing but against the Thalans.

Then next turn the Dregin had sponsers to get rid of me.

Few turns later, Dregin surrendered to Humans, Thalans surrendered to me
Humnas declared war on me ,but didn`t tell me (no UT).

Weired

Surrendering needs some work. It's no good if the AI surrenders because he has no militairy when his aggressor is on the other side of the huge galaxy. He has time to crank out ships, he didn't loose anything he just surrendered. And not to me, wich may be the reason why I'm so upset

G-Force

Perhaps what needs to be worked on, is how they sue for peace.

"Oops, we over estimated our forces. Here is (insert tech/bc) if you just forget the whole thing". Would be better than an inappropriate surrender.

The big thing is turn off the supers- makes the game a lot more logical/balanced. I've had a lot more fun that way.

Problem with surrending is a player who can stomp another race and has the attention to it- usually doesn't accept surrenders.

AIs who are outmatched should take a planet, then offer it back in exchange for tech/money if they're still outmatched after taking a planet.

In response to number 3, I thought the Altarians surrendering to the Korath was just nuts. In fact, a lot of people ended up surrendering to incompatible alignments.

Yes, I did have the Drath, who got everyone to declare war on everyone else, and then surrendered to the Korath. I quit at that point because the few races that were friendly to me surrendered to the 4 races that were at war with me.

I agree with several people who have pointed out that 0 military is no reason to surrender. It's very early in the game. No-one has the invasion techs. Even if two or three races across the gigantic map are at war with you, you probably have about 100 turns before they show up. Surrender should be based on actually losing the war, not thinking you might.

Edit: I do have the latest build.

Perhaps the Drath need to calm down and only use their manipulator ability against civs that are a threat to them. Every game that they've been in so far has been completely ruined.

I'm really glad they put the no surrender option in now. I was playing a huge tough or painful game not long ago. I'm pretty meticulous about wiping a military out, then invading. Went through the process of building about 150 transports. I ended up using all of 3 transports to wipe 6 opponents off the map. Even with 30-40 planets, once their military is gone they just surrender. Didn't matter who they surrendered to, because I would just go attack their military and it wouldn't be long till they followed suit. I wonder if any of these small helpful changes will make it to DL in a patch someday. Things like the no surrender would be great, seeing how the AI gives up to easily in DL also.

In my own game 2 near equal economic powers were at war due to the drath meddling. The arcean had a tiny military and the other the Korx had zero military. About possibly 6 turns after the war started the Korx surrendered to the Drath (not the civ they were at war with)this in second year of play. The Korx were in no danger of losing planets the arcreans didnt even have transports, in fact they had just culturally taking a planet from arcea.

Anyone tried giving a zero military power at war a military unit? This might stop the surrender issue until Stardock gives it a look.

On a side note I really like the drath ability but it poss needs to be used more selectively and with better purpose. eg helping them out in a losing war/giving an opp a second front in a war their in so they more easily take planets. Not just getting someone to attack someone they dont like just for the sake of it. War is usually the only way to expand so getting others to war can be counter productive.


Lenius.