AI Manufacturing Capitals before Turn One

They're not being given them, they're rush-buying them.

They've always done this, just rarely... they're doing it a *lot* more now though.

It happens on turn 1, not before turn 1.

It simply means that someone built a Manufacturing Capitol on their first turn. You could do the same thing before hitting the turn button, and you would have the same message pop up for yours.

And it is something that has happened, from time to time, in every version of the game. It is not a bug.

Okie Doke - I've never seen it happen before in any game I've played, interesting, AI's are turning into Capitalist heathens   

Regards
Zy

I experienced the same in my first and only game with Beta 2. I was playing as humans, medium galaxy, abundant everything, against the drengin, the thalans, and the krynn. Before I even got the "journey begins" pop-up there was a pop-up with the krynn getting a manufacturing capital. Did they get to go before me and buy it on their first turn? I've always assumed the human player always went first, but maybe that's not the case.

Everyone gets a turn, every turn. That would include the first turn.

It is not really a case of who goes first during that first turn, since you control when the turn button is first pressed. Things may go in a particular order, and so you may see something happen before you do anything. But all of that happens during the same turn. The only way they could really go first is if you hit turn without doing anything, which would give them a 1 turn lead.

Um. There is an order to the turn. Usually you get your moves ahead of the AIs, or at least it seems this way.

As far a planetary stuff, it's not as clear.

there must have been a change to the order of who goes first in this build. Some of the AI's seem to be getting their moves in before you, and the rest after. Still all on turn 1 tho, so it doesn't matter.

reminds me of a nice cheat in an old game i used to play - lords of the realm. you could move your unit while the AI was moving its unit to attack. It would end up stopping where your unit 'used' to be.

There is an order to the turn. Usually you get your moves ahead of the AIs, or at least it seems this way.

The appearance of these Man Caps *before* even the first "normal" click of a game makes me agree with the folks who think something's changed or gone wonky.

Still all on turn 1 tho, so it doesn't matter.

It *could* matter if there is more going on than just the Man Caps. If the AIs are somehow able to quick-build a colony ship, wouldn't that be a big advantage for them on smaller maps?

(Wanders off hoping that Kryo might chime in here)

No, because it's all still happening on Turn 1. It doesn't matter what order things happen (that much), as long is it's still all turn 1.

Logic, I think I follow your logic, but it is still rather unsettling to see 6 or 8 achievements built before you get your first click in a game

I'm a little bit lost on this whole topic. From what I've gathered, during the very first turn of the game, a civ built a manufacturing capital on it's planet, correct? If so, how much was it? I wouldn't think the funds were available for such a build during the very first turn. Again, I don't know the specifics but one would think that no one should be able to build something like a manufacturing/research capital during the first turn. Am I wrong? Or maybe I'm missing something?

a civ built a manufacturing capital on it's planet, correct? If so, how much was it?

Excellent question. Something makes me suspect Mumble knows the relevant number. I've never thought of buying a Man Cap outright without any production in the pipe.

Excellent question. Something makes me suspect Mumble knows the relevant number. I've never thought of buying a Man Cap outright without any production in the pipe.

You have enough money starting to purchase one, but I don't know the actual cost offhand. Something like... 1500bc, maybe? Regardless, buying it doesn't really seem like a good thing to do, let alone on the first turn.

Regardless, buying it doesn't really seem like a good thing to do, let alone on the first turn.

I would think that depends on the game you're playing, or should I say about to play. I've never tried building a Man. Capital immediately, just because. I've started out by going into the red quite a few times and let me say, those games have been some of my most gruelling in terms of having to come from behind. So maybe there is something to be said for buying one on the first turn, I'll have to try it and see.
The part I would like to see Mumblefratz chime in on is the actual costs of this "strategy" for the AI as well as any info regarding the AI economy during this "rush build". I mean, is the AI going into the red as well? Are they still pumping out colony ships like mad? I just wouldn't think it should be economically "savvy" to do on the first turn, but who knows, I've been wrong before!  

It's probably not too bad a strategy, so long as you're planning on leveraging your production to build your colony ships as apposed to buying them. I would personally advocate building a few factories first. And I'd only say this for larger galaxies.

For me, I use production bonuses so it isn't as important. Another thing to remember is that it may be worthwhile using the long payment plan.

I think the AI still tends to quick buy a few colony ships, which is good on smaller maps, but definately not the way to go on large galaxies. (large galaxies are all about efficency, which is using your production to build them)

This may be a sign that the AI is using a different colonization strategy.

The payment plans cost a lot more in the long run, and it is easy to overextend your budget - just like overspending with a credit card.

That small payment each week does not seem like much, but they add up quickly. Pretty soon you have no income and can't afford to buy anything even on credit.

It is a great way to stay broke for a long time.

Are you playing a scenario?

Manufacturing capitals are not amongst the improvements one gets with starting techs.

The super project notifacations happens as soon as they're built. They're not announced at the end of a turn but at the very moment they're fast built (including if you fast build one).

The Manufacturing Capital requires Xeno Industrial Theory. I don't know if the starting techs have been changed in DA, but in DL the Drath, Thalan, Yor, Torian and Iconians start out with this tech and so could conceivably rush buy the manufacturing capital on the first turn.

I’ve never personally done this but I think this costs on the order of 6000 bc, so I’d expect that the AI would have to do this on credit unless the 200% bonus includes starting cash as well.

I personally go for my manufacturing capital on my home planet as soon as I can, I think it’s a big benefit during the colony rush. What I usually do is to buy a factory on my home planet and build the manufacturing capital next. If I’m a race that doesn’t start with Xeno Industrial Theory, I’ll temporize by building another factory while researching Planetary Improvements then Xeno Industrial Theory. By the time my 2nd factory is complete I’m usually ready to build the manufacturing capital.

BTW the 1st factory on my home planet is the only building I’ll buy in at least the first two years of the game. Also, I *never* buy anything on interest. Perhaps, in the last year of the game it makes sense to buy ships on interest, but even then I can’t bring myself to do it. Even though it’s only a game, I was brought up to believe that paying interest is a mortal sin. If you can’t write a check for it, you shouldn’t be buying it. This particularly includes cars and houses.

Are you playing a scenario?

No this happens at the start of a normal sandbox game. Not all the time though & i guess it would depend on which races you selected. I play on random 2 so it only happens 50% or so of the time to me. I can send in a savegame from T1 if you require it?

I also saw a Man Cap binge from several AIs (4?) at the start of my first sandbox Beta 2 game. I saw nothing like that in my current game. Both games against 9 AIs.

I've also seen this a number of times; I was just assuming that they started with the mancap and the notification was a bit flakey.

Frogboy re your post 13 Dec 01.13hrs above

So there is no confusion - it is happening at the very start of the game. For example press cntrl-n and as each new startup map/settings is created, immediately after that process is complete the announcement of a Galatic Achievement "....... manufacturing Capital has been created" is shown. It happens about every two or three startups / new starts. At least one Race, but usually more than one race, gets the annoncement box appearing.

This is right at the very start before you have a chance of starting your initial config of planet / first ship move / research tech etc. Still happens in Beta 2A.

Regards
Zy

Sorry double post - forgot to emphasise its announced as a "Galactic Achievement" in the popup boxes, but its actually a Super Project. So either thats an isolated Text Label error, or is part of the 'bug' symptoms.

Sandbox games not scenarios.

Regards
Zy

Drath, Thalan, Yor, Torian and Iconians start out with this tech

These are the races that have purchased the manufacturing capital in my game on the first turn, sometimes all four.