Several folks owe some Hail Caris said while reading the Flaming Wastes Time thread.

I do know that this made Cari laugh.

Hail Cari, full of grace... (I do know a few inappropriate endings to this that I'll refrain from repeating).

And to beg everyone to calm the frak down and keep up the reasonable parts of this speed discussion

This is good advice so I'll attempt to take it and try to instill as little additional ill will as possible in my parting shot from this thread.

As "Grandpa Simpson" doesn't equate to "asshole" AT ALL, it's amusing to watch your meltdown, Mumble

Of course you're correct here. My comment was not based on a single response but in the context of your posting history. I'm not saying that you haven't contributed quality content, in fact the bulk of your posts are constructive. But there have been a pretty good double handful of posts that have simply been mean. I'm sure your response will be to ask for the citation of specific post and thread, but I have neither the time nor the inclination to comb through your 344 posts to look for something we both know is there.

have pretty much bent over backwards at every opportunity in the attempt, Why? Because you're the self-appointed welcoming committee? Perhaps the self-appointed glue that binds our holy Children of the Hyperdrive flock?

Why? Because you remind me of myself 20 years ago.

I wasn't disagreeing with the problems of open movement. I disagreed with the tone. The developers have never lied about the AI limitations making Mumble's phrase "open admission" to be singularly moronic.

If the developer's object to my tone then I'm sure they will make their objection known, perhaps subtly, perhaps not so subtly. In any case you nudge your way and I'll nudge mine. If you noticed, neither nudge had much effect.

To n0v4k4n3, it was a refreshing argument. Thanks, I appreciated it. Good quote there at the end. Also, not having to have the last response shows maturity, you come off better for it.

Speeds of 80 are crazy but speed limits of 6-8 on gigantic maps would make these games even more tedious. Currently, by the time I reach HyperWarp III, I create troop transports with speed 40 (6 engines) and in my last game, an event gave all ships a 50% speed boost, giving my transports 60 speed! Such speeds do place the AI at a severe disadvantage, since they also never get Eyes of the Universe or place sensors on their ships (except their survey ships). How about limiting ships to two engines which would mean a speed limit of 16 by the time HyperWarp III is reached. At the same time allow the AI to make better use of sensors. Those with slow computers will just have to upgrade or learn to be patient while the Ai thinks. The code is multi-threaded so is the AI thinking while I'm playing my turn?

i tend to go a little... oh hell... a lot more overboard

No problems at all. You need to earn the Kryo Banstick. It's fun to do once and then you settle into picking battles. I'd like to get my Metaverse empire off the ground. Create a character and join it. I could care less if anybody actually logs a game. It's more of a political statement.

I'd like to get my Metaverse empire off the ground.

Sign me up Wheel!  
But first things first... I need to take care of a little situation with thagee...  

I looked you up but you apparently haven't made a character yet. Make one and you'll join the Empire of Standards.

apparently haven't made a character yet.

When I first got on this forum I went to make one and realized that I didn't have my serial number from the game with me at work. Never really followed through since I lost my internet at home around that time. But since you are starting the "Empire of Standards" I will take care of things in the next couple of days.
The Metaverse itself never really mattered to me one way or the other. However, as of late, it seems that some people call into question a person's GC2 metaverse ranking, or lack thereof, as a sign of being a good and knowledgeable player. So to prove some wrong, and "participate" as a legitimate member of this forum, I guess I will start to delve into it.
Oh, and yes I know I can start a game at work, blah, blah, blah, and then submit it later. I've put enough effort into this game, something that is meant to be a diversion from the grind of reality. Going through even more paces at this time is not a viable option for me, nor will I let it be. Just thought I would clarify since it seems that someone feels I don't even own this game since I don't play the Metaverse. Wow.  

Just thought I would clarify since it seems that someone feels I don't even own this game since I don't play the Metaverse. Wow.

NO METAVERSE SCORE? YOU TORRENT WHORE....

yah, i get the same feelin there evil


don't make me buy this game and pwn u all....


JUST KIDDING

Just thought I would clarify since it seems that someone feels I don't even own this game since I don't play the Metaverse. Wow.

Alright. I assume you're referring to me. I'm sorry about the implication. I know for a fact that's its not true and many excellent players simply don't bother with the metaverse. Kblore is probably one of the best examples. From many discussions with him, I know that he's probably a better player than I am. Why anyone doesn't post to the metaverse is their own personal choice and none of my business.

The only additional comment I want to make is that it does seem that most people (certainly not all) that agree with the continual nerfing of the game seem to playing at lower difficulty levels. It gets to be frustrating when you’re playing at the highest level and winning with difficulty, and people playing at tough or whatever make comments that effectively translate into “the game’s too easy, nerf the speed, nerf the farms, nerf the morale buildings, nerf the stock markets, make the initial colony cost more, make morale tech more expensive, ad nauseam”. It gets old pretty quick.

Alright. I assume you're referring to me

Sorry about the confusion Mumblefratz but no, I didn't mean you. If you have been unaware at the recent bantering between myself and thagee regarding my answer to his question in the "can you post a beta to the metaverse" post. I guess I pissed in his wheaties with my answer. Go read it and you be the judge.

Sorry about the confusion Mumblefratz but no

OK. That's cool. But I did essentially make this implication to n0v4k4n3, so the apology was deserved anyway. But I am glad if it causes you to join an empire and post games to the metaverse, I think to does add something to the fun of the game.

It looks like Wheels empire is growing by "leaps and bounds".    You, Wheel and n0v4k4n3 (is nova OK for short, the alternating letters and numbers are difficult for my old arthritic fingers) can be the triumvirate of evil. I particularly like the empires motto, wasn't there a 7 Up commerical like that? But wait, there does seem to be a member that just doesn't quite fit in.   

But wait, there does seem to be a member that just doesn't quite fit in.

?

?

Did you go look?

(is nova OK for short, the alternating letters and numbers are difficult for my old arthritic fingers)

Hey you jackass works for me... w/e man IDC. i know when i'm being spoken to. I also second that question mark by Evil

Did you go look?

Yeah Mumblefratz, I went and saw what you were getting at. Must admit, it's kind of funny if you think about it, especially if you know what Wheeloffire can be like. I'm going to try and make a character tomorrow, pending my serial being okay (have had issues in the past).

lol @Mumblefratz Happiness and Sunshine   

Happiness and Sunshine

Did you see the personal icon, hence my comment about leaps and bounds. I think even Wheel will have to admit that it's funny. I'll take it down once he notices (unless he wants me to leave it there).

I particularly like the empires motto, wasn't there a 7 Up commerical like that?

Not sure about the commercial but the irony is I have a tee shirt that says the same thing... with some very "tactful" graphics added of course...  

Hey you jackass works for me

In general, I'll try to keep it a bit more civil than that. You know "the angry young man" is not the exclusive prerogative of the young. I've made no claim to sainthood that I know of.

i tend to go a little... oh hell... a lot more overboard

I can excuse this tendency in the young, can you excuse it in the aged?

Not sure about the commercial but the irony is I have a tee shirt that says the same thing... with some very "tactful" graphics added of course

There were a series of 7 Up commercials starring Orlando Jones (The Replacements, among others). One in particular, had a tee shirt promotion where the front of the shirt said "Make 7" and the back of the shirt said "Up Yours". He then obliviously walked down the street while people responded with “You to buddy” or other such comments, to which he replied “Thank You”. It was a classic.

There's been a lot of crap on this thread. The reality is as I think Mumble pointed out, is that no one can defend against (AI, or player) ships that are moving at 40+. It has nothing to do with CPU usage. At 40+ my strongest 4 or 5 fleets can hit you at a all your weakest points. (especially your resources)

You could have the AI take 6 hours to decide on what to do, and the only logical decision for the AI to take would be to build fast ships, and attack 1st. Trying to play defense doesn't work with fast ships.

What's bothered me is this has been an obvious consequence of the game design, and yet the AI doesn't use it. So either get the AI to blitz with fast ships, change the engine stats to slow things down, or change the mechanics. (limit attacking, stargates along with slow ships, make ships in orbit stronger, whatever)

When can we see a patch for plain GC2 that addresses this ?
That's the real question.

There's been a lot of crap on this thread. The reality is as I think Mumble pointed out, is that no one can defend against (AI, or player) ships that are moving at 40+. It has nothing to do with CPU usage. At 40+ my strongest 4 or 5 fleets can hit you at a all your weakest points. (especially your resources)

Sorry about my contribution to the crap on this thread.

Anyway, I think that resources can be effectively defended against blitz attacks by both the AI and the player. There's sufficiently few of them and they are of sufficient importance that I station a top line fleet on each and every one of them. I also have reserve fleets ready to fill in when necessary. I see nothing that precludes the AI from using this strategy, though they do seem to rely on starbase attack and defense which is absolutely useless mid to late game. But you can't do the same with each and every planet, the maintenance costs will kill you.

I think everyone is in agreement that a predictive defense against speed 40 (or 80 or pick a number) is impossible with today's hardware, no matter how current. I've still not heard anyone give me a corresponding reason why the AI can't duplicate this kind of attack, but anyway the AI currently doesn't. I have no idea whether it's possible or not. Can someone give me a reason why this is beyond the AI’s capability?

But assuming it's not feasible in the context of DA for whatever the reason, then doing *something* with speed appears to be the only way out. As Brad mentioned in some thread or other (could be this one for all I know) he has done *something* about speed in DA. Something he's sure will cause some angst, he just didn't mention specifically what.

I can think of many ways of implementing this that I would hate. I can also think of some ways of implementing this that I wouldn't mind so much. For me, I don't really object to attack ships and troop transports being slowed down in the opponents area of influence. What I do object to is all vessels being slowed down in all cases. Constructors are probably the number one concern, with colony ships and scouts not far behind. Also the effect of slow speed on the logistics of re-supply of attack ships and transports to the front line concerns me. I already have close to a thousand ships on auto-pilot at the same time, half of which continually lose their way and need individual attention each and every turn. I *really* don’t need any more of these.

The simple concept that has been suggested that appeals to me the most out of the myriad of distasteful solutions, is to have speed as it currently exists within your area of influence and slowed down outside of it. As I said before somewhere or other this would give a tremendous advantage to defense but I think defense in this game needs an advantage.

The thing is that this whole discussion doesn’t occur in a vacuum. As I said before, the farms have been nerfed, the morale buildings have been nerfed, the economic buildings have been nerfed, the factories have been nerfed, the morale benefit of the stock market has been removed, the support of the initial colony has been increased and the list goes on and on. All of this for the purpose of fairness to the AI. I’m all for fairness, but where’s the fairness to the human player? The AI is free to station it’s fleets by the human’s resources and planets and the human has no recourse but to attack and cause total war. The AI starts a war against the human player because “I know what you’re doing” and there are no fleets or transports anywhere near the AI. Or the best one yet, the AI declares war because of the placement of the human fleets that appear to be close to the AI’s influence area because the Zone of Control hasn’t been recalculated after the load of a save game.

And so to answer your question.

When can we see a patch for plain GC2 that addresses this ?

I’d personally like to see the specific solution that’s been implemented in DA before I would ask to be impaled on this in DL.

So anyway, I know this has been a long post. I fully expect to be criticized by those that read every third word or half of every paragraph, so if you’re one of those go back and at least read what I’m saying, and give a moment to think about it before slamming me. Thank you for your cooperation.

I still say it has nothing to do with CPU. Think of it this way, if you as a player saw the AI building ships at 40+, gathering up to attack someone, what would you do ?

You'd immeadiatly attack. Why would you wait for him to attack you ? If his ships are within range of you, who cares what they might be able to do ? You know they could put a hurting on you.

The problem would be the game probably wouldn't be much fun. It would be fair, but not fun... (and that's probably why the AI doesn't use speed)

Now the other question is, why setup the game like this and then wait more than 6 months to fix it ?

It gets to be frustrating when you’re playing at the highest level and winning with difficulty, and people playing at tough or whatever make comments that effectively translate into “the game’s too easy, nerf the...

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Tough the last AI level before the difficulty factors shift from limits on AI ability to bonuses for the AI? I've always found that the most difficult boundary to span, probably for "irrational" reasons. I want to feel very confident I've "whipped" a given game AI at its "real" capacity before I start letting it handicap me and trying to beat it anyway.

defense in this game needs an advantage

Absolutely true. Right now there's basically no viable defensive strategies other than military starbases. (which are fairly expensive, limited in scope, and pratically useless on larger maps)

I'd love to see mil starbases made viable through to mid-game, and even still usefull at the late game. (like start them out with a few decent upgrades)

This is something else they should be looking at. I know they wanted the balance to be for offense, but right now offense is the only way to go.

I've made no claim to sainthood that I know of.

Now I'm starting to get the Martin Luther icon thing