Psiborg Psiborg

Gameplay Report Card for Beta 1A

▼

Gameplay Report Card for Beta 1A

Initial impressions of the beta.

from GalCiv2 Forums

So far I've played two games (large & gigantic) with the Dark Avatar beta 1a and I really like what I see! The game feels not only fresh again but overall just more interesting.

I had to stop both due to technical issues and I've already submitted bug reports and suggestions via email. Rather than repeat those reports here, I thought I post some of my general feelings about the gameplay (not UI or technical) additions and see what everybody else thinks too. These thoughts acknowledge that this is a beta and that many of these things aren't play balanced yet, etc. It's just a my general impression at this point on the new features so far:

DIFFERENT WORLD TYPES - Grade: A

- They really break up the traditional colony rush which is a good thing. I always found the initial rush a tedious but critical portion of the game. With the different world types, there is now additional strategy involved in the land grab which makes it more interesting. e.g. I was racing another colony ship for a couple of planets in my space. Upon comparing technologies I saw he could only colonize one of them while I could grab either. Of course I took the one that we had in common and got both at the end of the day.

- It also leaves a few worlds available until mid-game which can tip the balance or offer a foothold where it would be otherwise difficult to obtain. Playing on a gigantic map I found two class 1 restricted planets that the AI had ignored well into the mid-game. I grabbed them both and they turned out to be potential class 16 worlds! It took some work to build the colony with the expensive buildings I had at that point but...

- Lastly, it also makes you rethink your early tech-tree path. I have a fairly regular start progression but now there is value in interrupting that to take advantage of colonization opportunities. Once again - a good thing.

ASTERIOD MINING - Grade: B

- I *really* like the idea but, unlike the world types, I didn't find that this enhanced the strategy all that much. Now that part of my industry had moved off world I just had to be more patient about getting my resources. Because they flip with influence, I was reasonably assured that I would eventually get the mining centers close to my planets. The ones further away, offer a smaller bonus so gaining/losing them wasn't as severe anyway. I didn't do the math and was just playing on 'feel' but overall it didn't make me play much differently.

- Well, what it did make me do differently was micro-manage my ships around them. Asteroids slow your ship movement to 1 when you pass through them. Currently, the AI has not been upgraded to fly around them even if you have enough speed. So, if you aren't paying attention, your speedy ships will fly straight through them an you'll lose a couple of turns (flying in where you'll stop, and flying out at speed 1). Once the AI path finding is upgraded (I'm assuming this isn't a design decision) it will be fine.

- I've seen the suggestion on several other posts about making resources in non-star-system-asteriods instead of free floating "balls". This makes a lot of intuitive sense but obviously changes the strategy quite a bit as miners - not constructors - would been needed. Also, they would be susceptible to influence flip just like other mines. Because these super mines are so valuable (and unprotected) they would get quite a cluster of influence star bases built around them. They'd also probably need baby-sitting during conflict as they wouldn't be star bases anymore with the ability to defend themselves. I'm really not sure if a change that major would be good or not but it would certainly shake up existing strategies. Personally, I'm undecided at this point but would be interested in hearing opinions.

MEGA EVENTS - Grade: Potential A but jury is still out...

- Once again, I like the design decision to shake things up and - depending on how they finally get implemented - I expect to like them a lot. Without random events, the end game can get tedious when victory is basically assured. But, in each game I've played only the super-acceleration of a particular race was triggered. It didn't turn out to be that much of a threat in my games and this particular event I believe was already present in 1.4 anyway. I have yet to experience "The Plague" but look forward to the panic

SPYS - Grade: C

- Although I expect to be in the minority here, at this point I don't find spies that compelling. I felt that the only real value to using them was on major buildings like Manufacturing Capitals or special one-of-a-kind structures. The problem here was finding the damn things. I had to click on each world and hunt around for them which I found tedious (does the AI have the same restriction? i.e. can't place spy if your planet is in his fog of war?). Perhaps I'm just not used to them yet but all I did was keep some in reserve to nullify the spies used against me or protect existing structures. It felt like a resource drain rather that a major strategic tool. However, I acknowledge that this may just be my current gameplay style and I may just need to get used to them. What is the general vibe out there? Yay? Nay? or Meh...?

SUPER ABILITIES - Grade: A


- These definitely need balancing but they do give distinct personalities to each race. Brad has his work cut out for him getting these right. It's hard enough to balance units when each AI has the *same* unit types. But balancing between different unique and powerful ones? Tricky! But they are a great addition!

SHIP TEMPLATES - Grade: A

- This is a great stop forward but I'd suggest tweaking this even more by limiting ships by racial type. Sure, you can offer parts sets that revolve around a certain style but in the end, let us do what we want - at least for custom races. Give access to ALL ship parts/styles. In my second game I played custom again (I always do) but changed the base ship style to see what other parts might be available. When I started playing however, I found that I couldn't use the ship templates I'd made last game because I had picked a different part style this time. What the heck, give us the freedom to mix and match as we wish. Why not?

- Also, when building a new *template*, give access to ALL the hulls and non-functional parts (once again with no style limits). Sometimes, I just feel like making a new ship for the next time I play or whatever. Unless I save an many endgames with all the hull sizes researched where I'm playing each of the different races (to access their styles). I can't just jump in and make any type of ship I want.

- Kryo's hull system mod is amazing and the ship designs are awesome! I use those exclusively when playing Dread Lords. It will be amazing to be able to trade template designs with other players!

I've obviously got too much time on my hands tonight. Man this got wordy - sorry about that Keep up the good work guys. Way to make a great game better!!!

23,208 views 38 replies
Reply #26 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Perhaps there should be a way to counter/prevent influence flipping of mines by stationing a military presence there. A 100% prevention chance wouldn't be very realistic, but there should be a buffer between a bunch of colonists/miners wigging out over the GalCiv equivelant of cosmic jeans and DVD's.   

Of course, I've felt the same way about planets flipping. I get that you can build a loyalty center and boost morale via other means, but there should be a way to park a few gunships above a planet's atmo and induce a little loyalty...
Reply #27 from Stardock Forums Top
there should be a way to counter/prevent influence flipping of mines

Influence starbases.
TouchTasks - Access tasks with ease on Windows touchscreens.
Reply #28 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Influence starbases.


Sure, but the pragmatist in me sees that as a really inefficient way to do things. To use the miners in China analogy, how would you insure the miners loyalty if you were their liason in the west?

a) Build an embassy (influence starbase) nearby and hope that the influx of western music and TV will keep them in line, or
b) Garrison a company of hardcore "security consultants" with the miners and encourage groupthink?

Added to that is the fact that influence starbases are really hit and miss if an opponent's planet is nearby. Many times the starbases influence just doesn't cut it.
Reply #29 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
(Citizen)WheeloffireNovember 29, 2006 08:01:17Reply #3Too much emphasis on spies. Not enough emphasis on improving ass kicking.

Flipping asteroid mines with influence is ludicrous. What do you think would happen if a West Virginia coal mine decided that the US sucks and all coal is going to China?

Spies are overdone. An additional slider for counter-espionage would have been good enough for a lot of players.

Pirates are ignored. This game needs a criminal underworld between the fog of war. Space is big, right? Dealing with pirates and smugglers is orders of magnitude more appealing than dealing with spies.

Starbases. Either make them cheaper or make them captureable.


I can't believe this but I agree with about everything Wheel said here.

I would hate to see spies/espionage left in the form they currently have; what a pain in the butt. Would it be possible to have different espionage settings to let you tailor your game to have as many or as few as your comfortable with [if your not into the whole spy thing]? Maybe something as simple as a two choice option: 1.Dread Lord level of espionage or 2. new and improved[?] Dark Avatar level of espionage.
Reply #30 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Added to that is the fact that influence starbases are really hit and miss if an opponent's planet is nearby

Then conquer the opponent's planet. That solves the problem without building an influence starbase.

I guess it all depends on the kind of game you play, but I'm going to conquer *everything* sooner or later. If it's a critical resource that helps me win the game, I may as well take it sooner.
Reply #31 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Not enough emphasis on improving ass kicking.

I have to agree that this kicking of ass about which Wheel speaks is to me the most important feature of the game. The idea that a combination of weaker opponents can gang up on the strongest and cripple him by espionage without actually confronting him is to me pretty much the same as the human using blitz tactics to conquer an AI without giving him a chance to respond. Both of these are pretty much the weasel way out. I’d certainly prefer that 2 or 3 weaker opponents just banded together and declared war on the stronger. This would certainly make the end game more interesting.
Reply #32 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Real spies are dedicated to gathering information


Wheel's onto something here. Deep cover spies almost always focus on intel, but there are also saboteurs. Maybe the DA system needs to add that counter-espionage slider and then use something like the planetary build queues to create (optional) spy units that you can use for sabotage. I'm definitely still in the on-the-fence crowd re the Handsome Hat units.

the weasel way out


The line of thought behind this quote seems like another option for endless discussion b/c in the end it comes down to player skill levels and taste. I was really quite shocked the first time I heard the blitzkrieg described as "the weasel way." I thought all's fair in love and war.
Reply #33 from Stardock Forums Top
blitzkrieg described as "the weasel way." I thought all's fair in love and war.

It is and it isn't. I think any tactic that one side or the other is precluded from using fits the category. Any tactic equally available to both sides is by definition "fair".

My statement was based on the assumption that those enamored with espionage are often one and the same as those that object to the blitzkrieg tactic. By making the statement I was trying to apply the same arguments they make about blitzkrieg against the espionage system. It was really espionage that I was referring to as the weasel way.

The final piece of this circuitous argument is the part that argues why espionage isn't equally available to both sides. This is where I think Wheels ass kicking philosophy applies.

My attitude is, I have a hammer and I'm going to hit you in the head with it, so what are you going to do about that. I liken espionage to having a pea shooter and once you look the other way I'll hit you in the back of the head with a pea. To me it's just an annoyance.

Whether it's the difficulty of programming the AI to use and counter blitz tactics, or whether it's my inability to use an espionage system that I consider dishonorable, the effect is them same.
Reply #34 from Stardock Forums Top
Actually dishonorable was an unfortunate choice of words and really isn't applicable. What is applicable is that I would only use agents to remove agents placed on my planets and would not place my own agents on other's planets. But that's just me.
Reply #35 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Brad wrote:
I'm a bit bummed to see that agents aren't well loved. The thing about them is that a few spies on your planets really don't do much damage but many players really dislike the concept of havign even a single spie on their worlds.


I mentioned this in another thread but I'll expand on it here. In the DA games I've played the espionage side of things has devolved into something resembling a game of "Whack-a-Mole". I don't have any issues with having enemy spies on my worlds but the fact that they can cripple an important world or structure with no defense is extremely annoying. Here's a typical sequence:

1. Enemy spy lands on a manufacturing capitol.
2. I remove the spy, expending one of my own agents to do so.
3. Lather, rinse, repeat.

This sequence is, no doubt, caused by multiple races planting spies as needed but from my point of view my race can't produce enough spies fast enough to keep the manufacturing capitol functioning.

I think the espionage system, as it stands, needs some tweaking and some way to defend against enemy spies but it definitely has potential.
Reply #36 from Stardock Forums Top
the espionage side of things has devolved into something resembling a game of "Whack-a-Mole"

Beautiful turn of a phrase. I love it.   
Reply #37 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
the fact that they can cripple an important world or structure with no defense is extremely annoying. Here's a typical sequence:

1. Enemy spy lands on a manufacturing capitol.
2. I remove the spy, expending one of my own agents to do so.
3. Lather, rinse, repeat.

This sequence is, no doubt, caused by multiple races planting spies as needed but from my point of view my race can't produce enough spies fast enough to keep the manufacturing capitol functioning.


The latest game I played, I had a constant 10 enemy agents on my planets, no doubt from various AI races, but I couldn't produce agents fast enough to counter them and it wasn't until the AI races started being killed off by one of the other AI races that I started to finally get rid of enough agents to not have my two ship building planet s completely crippled. Which also had me wondering, whether the AI placed agents are still in effect once their empires fade in to the ether.
Reply #38 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'm a bit bummed to see that agents aren't well loved.


I don't dislike the spies as they are; rather, there just seem to be too many of them. They add a certain extra something to the game, definitely. However, when management of ane one aspect of the game (for me, it's spies and constructors) starts to take up disproportionate amounts of time each turn of the game, they can start to become a turn-off to some players.

the espionage side of things has devolved into something resembling a game of "Whack-a-Mole"


Actually, adding a second level of spy - the deep-cover "mole" - isn't a bad idea. Instead of simply sabotaging planetary improvements, they could have more sinister capabilities, such as negating a planet's soldiering ability (Blowing the power grid, etc.) during an invasion.

magical space balls


No wonder the pants don't fit too well...