TOO MANY spies... Making things unfun.

ok, trying this again...

They did say not to worry about removing agents.
But yeah, I think it's a bit much also. I had I think twenty in a game once, and still getting more if I even place an agent.

I think there are too few spies in my current game on a small map.

(Citizen)ignussNovember 28, 2006 00:34:50Reply #3I think there are too few spies in my current game on a small map.

well i can see there may be fewer in a smaller game, and granted i'm playing on a larger map, but wow, ok, the ratio is WAY to high right now.

How many planets did you have with those 16 foreign agents?

I played a medium map, tight clusters, 5 player, occasional stars, occasional habitality on the first Beta release.

Just before I won the game on an influence victory, I had 27 agents on 5 planets.
The largest concentration on my research planet where every tile but my colony, spaceport and multimedia center ahd an agent.

One thing I would like to see...

If you conquer a planet, other civs agents get knocked out as collateral damage.
As it is right now, you agents return and all others stay on the planet.

I had over 40 agents in one of my games. Medium map ,abundant planets and stars.

My economy was well ahead of the other 6 opponents. My military was low, so I started to crank out defenders. That`s when they all (I asume all) started to plant spies.
At first I could keep up, but after a while I had to reduce spending on spies (over 1000 bc). This had a knock on affect, I was soon crippled. I had to sell off my ships.

On small maps you dont seem to get as many.

Haven`t tried huge 9 opponents. Good luck to who ever tries.

It does make the game quite unfun, because everybody gangs up on you, and you can't produce agents quickly enough to get rid of them. Neither can you work out who it is, so you can attack them and sort them out that way.

I would like to see some, or all of these things:

- Spies in the field need a high maintenance cost.
- You should be able to produce Agencies to increase your spy production.
- You should be able to pay cash (a lot) to nullify agents.
- You should be able to build police buildings which give a % chance of catching agents before they're placed.

- You should be able to build police buildings which give a % chance of catching agents before they're placed.

Some kind of espionage building is most likely coming.

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I played one game where I had an agent placed on the planet. When I took the planet, my agent stayed in place and I couldn't remove him. He didn't show up in the espionage tab as either a placed agent or an enemy agent. But on the planet screen it still showed the Red Spy logo on the building I had placed there. I tried demolishing the building and rebuilding there to no affect, also tried quiting game and reloading.

I do believe this was the original beta though, and have not seen it since upgrading. Also, at the time I didn't have the crash program installed (smartexception I think it's called) and the game crashed like like 10 - 15 turns later. Started a new one after that so I don't have the save game anymore, sorry, wasn't thinking

Brad has said he's decreased the number of spies floating around for the next build. Though even if there are less, being the most powerful civ makes you everyone's target.

The spies seem to be getting a lot of attention from us layfolks and the relative quiet from Stardock dev makes me suspect we'll see some significant changes in the next beta build.

From what I've noticed in Brad's remarks, I'm pretty sure that whatever else happens, the units will be more expensive & therefore rarer.

Still holding out for the option to disable Spies...like was added for tech trading.   

Been watching/listening to all the chat re spies .... interesting, I have been getting a different reaction from the game. Seen a few, but not many, nullified most, they havent been a hassle for me. Clearly some people been getting Zillions, not disputing or pushing back on that, just an observation from my games - no idea why it should be different. On most I have been the one being a nuisence with spies, on some games mine have crippled one or more opps to cakewalk level.

I play Gigantic between 6 and 9 opponents usually. Started off on Normal level to get used to DA, but now starting to get back to my usual level of Crippling. Maybe its because most of my earlier games were at Normal level, dont know, but for whats its worth, thats whats happened to me re spies.

Regards
Zy

I also have not had that much difficulty with spies, (yet!). I do like the suggestion that evil muppet made about being able to build police buildings that could give a percentage chance of geting an agent before they are placed, this could give the player a better chance of defending a more important colony.

A good idea!

Still holding out for the option to disable Spies

I'm a big fan of options in general, but this seems tricky, at least if you still want some sort of intel on the AIs. Do really want a disable for all espionage, or something more like a switch between DL-mode and DA-mode?

Brad has said he's decreased the number of spies floating around for the next build. Though even if there are less, being the most powerful civ makes you everyone's target.

Why not put a hard-cap on the amount of spies you can have. With a total of 'X' spies it would make placing them all the more important. Right now its a case of anywhere will do.

Oh and i would like to be able to sabotage too or at least place a spy on the AI's starport to stop production there. Sabotage would be a handy extra as you could send in a few spies before attacking a planet to 'soften it up' a bit for you first! Could be a fun element!

or something more like a switch between DL-mode and DA-mode?

This would be a great option.

Not a big fan of spies, but wouldn't want them removed entirely.

I'd like to see a small page taken from Imperium Galactica II's spy system. Where you have an improvement like a spy center. For each center you build you get the ability to produce +1 spy. You'd have the building maintenance/tile space as limiting factors on how many spies you can have. Devs would also have another balancing tool for the spies via adjusting building cost and maintenance.

To be honest I haven't dealt with the spy system much. I put three spies out to get high espionage, then recall them. Only use them thereafter to nullify, which since I'm not sending any out. I don't seem to get many against me. I'm not sure what I was expecting from the spy system, but it's not how I thought it might be. I'll be withholding judging it really at this early stage, but I'll be tinkering with them on each new build to see what has changed.

Do really want a disable for all espionage, or something more like a switch between DL-mode and DA-mode?

The way I like to play, I wouldn't have intelligence projects. One of the options I like from the Space Empires series is the ability to load up a game that has no intelligence projects at all. However, if disabling the spies altogether is not feasible, I'd rather have the current GC2 intelligence option instead of spies. Of course, this opinion is based on what currently exists in DA. It can change, and I await those changes to see how things balance out.

I'd like to see a small page taken from Imperium Galactica II's spy system. Where you have an improvement like a spy center. For each center you build you get the ability to produce +1 spy. You'd have the building maintenance/tile space as limiting factors on how many spies you can have. Devs would also have another balancing tool for the spies via adjusting building cost and maintenance.

Why not put a hard-cap on the amount of spies you can have.

If the spy system stays on its current track, this might be a good notion, but I hope any hard-caps would be indexed to map settings. A cap of 10 might seem plenty to small-map players who only expect to manage a few colonies, but for those of us who end up with a hundred or more...

Well one other way to look at it would be to have the # of spies tied to your espionage ability.

That way, you could research it up some.

Well one other way to look at it would be to have the # of spies tied to your espionage ability.

Thats a good idea, i'm glad that you posted that as well this is a good direction to take it IMO.

Their definately should be a limit to how many, like maybe 1 spy per every 10% skill or something? I think that would be a good limit.

I remember on Master of Orion 2 putting like 60+ spies on an enemy which was kind of cheap especially if you had spy bonuses.. usually though if you loaded up on defensive spys as well you were pretty safe on that game though.

(Avatar)Frogboy November 30, 2006 20:11:05 Reply #23 Well one other way to look at it would be to have the # of spies tied to your espionage ability. That way, you could research it up some.

Nice suggestion What i dont think we want to detract from is that we all like the idea of the spy ability and its usefulness. Frogboy please dont get us wrong on that as all we would like to see is a 'cap' on the number to stop it becoming a game killer.