Reply #23Look guys , the game is totally unknown, how can you be sure that you will like it if all you have is a couple of screen shoots and back story ? With GC it was different - I downloaded a demo, liked it , bought , then i PREORDERED Antares because I KNEW it GC style that I like , then I PREORDERED GC2 because I KNEW it is in style I like , now I PREORDERED DA because I KNOW it's a game in a style I like ... But this "Sins" ... they MIGHT be the style I like or MIGHT NOT , I can't tell since I have no info to base my opinion on. So why to spend $50 NOW and get something I UNSURE of, while I can spend this $50 on something else I am SURE going to like and then when demo will be available I will download it , check it and then make decision . About my prev. price comment - it follows from the above - I could consider preordering this "grey horse" game if I knew I pay less when preordering but pay now full price and get the game way latter and even without knowing if I going to like it ... Nea

Spore is a totally new game, with lots of big complicated untried stuff in it. No-one has played it yet, there are no reviews, no demo's. Hellgate is another one with its randomised maps. Stalker? I've read loads about its technical teething troubles and AI issues the dev's are trying to beat - which is why its really overdue now.

All 3 of those 'major' titles are unknowns and any of them could fall off the back of the development wagon as a steaming pile of broken...ahem. Yet thousands of people are quite happy to stump up their cash on pre-orders for equally untried, untested and as-yet unfinished games as Sins.

No-one says a word.

Now with Sins, you get the same potential of rubbish BUT you get the opportunity to take part in the beta and give the dev's as much feedback as you want and thus a better chance of the final game not featuring the issues you don't like. If you want to. If you don't want to you can pre-order but not bother trying to beta or just wait for a review/finished demo.

Your call, but there is nothing at all wrong with what is on the table here, its a better offer than you're being given for Spore, Hellgate or Stalker - you don't get a say in how those come out at all.

All 3 of those 'major' titles are unknowns and any of them could fall off the back of the development wagon as a steaming pile of broken...ahem. Yet thousands of people are quite happy to stump up their cash on pre-orders for equally untried, untested and as-yet unfinished games as Sins. No-one says a word.

Err...

Maybe because this is a board for GC2, and Sins (to some extent).

Have you checked the boards for those other three games to see if anyone has expressed that opinion?

Even if they havn't so what? KiRon may indeed agree with my decision to simply *never* preorder any game no matter what. Betas are great, though depending on your time, and the raw number of people in it, your opinion will likely be meaningless.

Besides its not as though you can't give your opinion without actually playing the beta. Heaven knows that *never* happens...

Maybe I missed this piece of info some where, so I'll ask...How long is the pre-order and get the Beta offer good for?? Thanks...

p.s. and info on the minimum required specs would also be appreciated as soon as possible...

Err... Maybe because this is a board for GC2, and Sins (to some extent). Have you checked the boards for those other three games to see if anyone has expressed that opinion? Even if they havn't so what? KiRon may indeed agree with my decision to simply *never* preorder any game no matter what. Betas are great, though depending on your time, and the raw number of people in it, your opinion will likely be meaningless. Besides its not as though you can't give your opinion without actually playing the beta. Heaven knows that *never* happens...

Pretty much my point. THis pre-order is the same as for any other game but with an added extra that may appeal. If you never pre-order anything why bash this particular pre-order?

I also don't think its on to slag off something you've never tried, not going to stop people from doing it I know.

Maybe I missed this piece of info some where, so I'll ask...How long is the pre-order and get the Beta offer good for?? Thanks... p.s. and info on the minimum required specs would also be appreciated as soon as possible...

If it's like our betas in the past it'll go in phases, so if you don't preorder in time for one phase (the devs are aiming for January for the first phase), you have to wait until the next phase to join in. I'm not sure of the specifics in this case, though, so the safest bet is if you're planning to preorder sometime, do it sooner rather than later.

As to the requirements, they are not set yet but there is a thread about it on the Sins forums, where you can find some comments from the Ironclad devs as well as Yarlen and Zoomba on what sort of machines they ran it on already. Check it out if you're interested about that.

The original GalCiv on OS/2 back in 1993 had the same system.

You want to talk about untried -- in 1993, the very first major OS/2 game being done by a start up developer with no track record on a platform that had never had a commercial game.

And thousands joined the beta.

Why? So that they would have a hand in shaping the game.  As some may recall, GalCiv for Windows has starbases. Where did that concept come from? Beta testers.  Galactic resources? Beta testers.

I totally understand if someone doesn't want to pre order. That's fine. But that doesn't mean there aren't compelling reasons to pre-order (i.e. to get the beta).

Incidentally, Sins of a Solar Empire has developers who also worked in the Homeworld series.

Pretty much my point. THis pre-order is the same as for any other game but with an added extra that may appeal. If you never pre-order anything why bash this particular pre-order? I also don't think its on to slag off something you've never tried, not going to stop people from doing it I know.

Kiron and myself have not slagged Sins, if anything we have slagged on preorders generally, though I don't think we actually slagged on anything, just presented an opinion about a different philosophy on preorders. I'm not trying to disuade anyone from getting the game and participating in the beta, I'm just pointing out that you don't need to be in the beta to have a voice either.

Unless they make betamember only forums, but since its an open beta... well you get the picture.

I can read enough on boards where people are describing and discussing the game, I can ask questions about what I read, and I can form an opinion, and even offer my own suggestions all without having to actually play the game. Of course my suggestions may or may not carry much wieght, it all (or it should) depends on how they are presented and what evidence one has to back them up.

Why? So that they would have a hand in shaping the game. As some may recall, GalCiv for Windows has starbases. Where did that concept come from? Beta testers. Galactic resources? Beta testers.

Thats great for those who want to do it. Though as I said, you don't need the actual beta to offer suggestions, or to have those suggestions listened to do you?

Incidentally, Sins of a Solar Empire has developers who also worked in the Homeworld series.

Cool, I've little doubt it will be a good game, just whether or not it will be a good game for me. Therefore I'm not in the practice of preordering at such an early stage. Now if there were a demo beta too... well I think you get the idea.

Well thank's for defending my point but I DO preorder games , sometimes ...

But usually I have at least some information about it - either I liked prev. part or I played a demo and such .

"Sins" is totally unknown "thing" no I no anyone else have ANY information about it besides name , one screenshoot (that probably not even a screenshot but a artist drawing) and a very short "universe description" ...

I am not bush it it may end up as an excellent game but I will not preorder until I know or see more.

The second point that since a price is not discount price I can buy REAL game now and buy Sins later . I see no point to hurry it's either pay now and get a game in a few months or pay in a few months and get a game in few months - so why to pay now ?