Are Starbases too puny?

from GalCiv2 Forums
Personally, I think Starbases are too puny. MUCH too puny. I can upgrade a Starbase with tons of weaponry and defense, and it still will die quite easily to all but the most puny attack fleets. I usually have to park a fleet of my own on top of my Star Bases to prevent the enemy from destroying them. The only thing Starbase attack components seem to do is deter the AI from destroying your starbases with a Scout armed with a Laser. In End-Game situations, a fully upgraded Starbase is more vulnerable than most of my painfully un-upgraded ships.

Maybe it's just me, but I think Starbases should be more powerful. Plus, I think the amount of constructor ships required to fully arm a Starbase is ridiculous. Of course, one shouldn't be able to build the DEATH STAR with just a handful of constructors, but spending a dozen constructors for a Starbase that can barely defend itself doesn't really seem worth it.

I also dream of Starbases taking part in tactical battles with ships in the same square as they are.

17,824 views 35 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Won't hear me argue with you. I've thrown everything I can onto an influence starbase, and walked a modestly powerful gunboat rip it apart.
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I belive the only real fix they need to do is just to make it so you can put starbases in fleets. As they said in another topic, starbases are supposed to be defended.
Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

I don't mind defending, but realisticly speaking, a military capable space station should be able to put up some sort of fight. I loved putting the time and energy into upgrading, choosing the best defence against my enemy etc. upgrading and seeing positive results is part of turn based strategy, so I say make the upgrades worth while. I would also love to see a Battle screen with my space station kicking some fleet butt!
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'd really like to see a starbase self-repair function. Most of the ones I have can survive a battle or two, but that's it.

They really would be excellent if they actually could be the flagships of a fleet.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Yep, way too puny.

They shouldn't be invincible by any means, but they *should* be powerful enough that if you keep them upgraded as far as you've reached in the tech tree, then it'll take a concerted effort by several fleets to take them down.

That said, it would be much better if they actually fought along with your fleets. Then there'd be a point to upgrading them. As it is, right now it's a waste of time since they can't survive long term alone, but then they can't contribute to the fight when defended either. I find it difficult to believe the current system is a game design choice rather than some weird coding difficulty!
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
What I always see people forget on this site is that starbases ARE NOT forts, they are just simple stat boosters. What you guys are saying is like saying an oil rig in the ocean should be able to hold its own against a battleship.
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I created a post asking a similiar question to this. Frogboy replied that space stations are not Space Fortresses. In fact, the idea was is, that you needed fleets to defend them.

That was sort of my problem, because fleets don't actually sit there idly by and never bother you again. Using the guard command means, they will wake up to ask you what to do when something as minor as a enemy freighter passes by. A fortify command should be made created; a command that would prevent the fleet from asking for your attention unless it was attacked, or something.

If they intend for us to defend space stations with fleets, they should atleast allow us to do it well.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think the military starbase should at least be a 'fortress', capable of defending itself.

I now sometimes upgrade starbases to the max because of compulsive upgrade behaviour, but not because it's useful.
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Hi!
Recently I quit upgrading my SBs with military equipment, because only very rarely were those upgraded SBs actually attacked. Also, for the amount of needed constructors and resources put in them, I could build a formidable fleet that could defend several SBs and planets.

BR, Iztok
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Recently I quit upgrading my SBs with military equipment, because only very rarely were those upgraded SBs actually attacked. Also, for the amount of needed constructors and resources put in them, I could build a formidable fleet that could defend several SBs and planets.


This is the general consesus that I have seen on the forums. I don't put any weaponry on my bases any more either. I think if they would allow starbases to be added to the flee that is defending them, it would "fix" the issue for a lot of people.
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
There is a lot of energy building up starbases to be potent and then they should have teeth. You can make them more expensive so there are fewer but give them some real teeth. I am all for protecting a starbase WHEN required, facing a horrific force but not some cheesy Phoenix that nails the most advanced Starbase. Also if you make them more expensive, put engines on them so they can move so when one part of the universe is out of conflict you can move the Starbase to a hot area. Obviously when moving they need to be protected by a fleet for they should become vulnerable at that time.
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I hate to bring in this example, but I feel starbases need to be better defended, particularly military ones. I can see economy and influence starbases being weak, but military ones should be like starbases seen in Star Trek.

Cue nerdy example: Deep Space Nine was armed to the teeth as was the starbase at Earth when the Borg attack (if I recall correctly). In BotF, starbases were formidable oponents even with no fleet defense, they could take on multiple ships and emerge alive, if a bit beaten up. It took a fairly large fleet of destroyers, cruisers and a command ship or two to take one out.

End nerdy example
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
One thought here, is that maybe military starbases could have a base multiplier to attack and defense modules, say you add +1 attack, plus it gets an inherent muliplier of 1.5 or some such (whatever a balanced number may be). Maybe econ and influence bases get a 1.1 modifier, I don't know, just an idea. Remember I am still playing my very first game.
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I created a post asking a similiar question to this. Frogboy replied that space stations are not Space Fortresses. In fact, the idea was is, that you needed fleets to defend them.


Space Stations shouldn't be space fortresses, no.

BUT if you spend 10 Constructor ships to deck them out specifically with military hardware, then they SHOULD BECOME fortresses.

My point is basically you should get what you pay for when it comes to Starbases. If you spend the cash on the constructors to upgrade them, when all the upgrading is done, then dammit it should be able to defend itself against a reasonable attack force.

As someone else pointed out, it's currently much more worthwhile to spend that money on ships to park on top of the Starbase to defend it instead.

I submit that this doesn't really make any sense.
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Military upgrades to Star Bases is a waste of time and resources.

I don't even research that line.

Just put some ships there to defend. The ships can move, and as your territory expands you can advance those ships to defend starbases that are more vulnerable.

Attack and defense upgrades for Star Bases are just pointless.

- Livonya
Reply #16 from Stardock Forums Top
I don't waste constructors upgrading starbases past 1 or 2 basic defense and offense modules - just enough to keep the aI from sending a mini ship to attack it. Instead I build lots of constructors and stockpile them - send them to a safe rally point - and just build a new starbase immediately, with all economic/influnce/mining modules in one turn using my vast constructor fleet, when one of my starbases gets destroyed.

This way I never waste a constructor on a military module that may never be needed or one that is ineffectual in the late game.
Reply #17 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
What you guys are saying is like saying an oil rig in the ocean should be able to hold its own against a battleship.


Bad analogy!

Since when do oil rigs receive all sorts of military upgrades?

If you're going to have an entire branch of the tech tree devoted to equipping starbases to defend themselves, doesn't it make sense that said branch should not be almost entirely useless? Currently it is, and will remain so unless they allow fleets and starbases to act together.
Reply #18 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I created a post asking a similiar question to this. Frogboy replied that space stations are not Space Fortresses. In fact, the idea was is, that you needed fleets to defend them.



I can understand this, but the AI clearly doesn't. Anyone in the know doesn't bother with anything more then +1/+1/+1 in the beginning of the game, and just parks a fleet there later.

The AI on the other hand, wastes tons of resources adding very little usefull defense to its starbases. For as powerfull as say military resources are, simply relying on starbase defenses is one of the biggest weaknesses of this AI.

In most games simply snagging 2+ military resources can really swing the game. If you don't get them in the constructor rush, simply line up on them, take them out and build them up in a single turn.

For me, the easy way to deal with this is to improve starbase defenses. (probably also need to consider allowing them multiple attacks.)

The other way, is to fix the AI to not bother with defenses, and park a fleet on its starbases. Which would beg the question, why have starbase defenses at all ?
Reply #19 from Stardock Forums Top
(probably also need to consider allowing them multiple attacks.)

I like this idea. The star base should be able to fire on each attacking ship each round of combat rather than only attack once per round - this would be a big equalizer for the aI

I believe that Frogboy said in a recent reply in one of his journals about large vs small ships that he liked the idea of multiple weapons on a large hull being able to fire multiple times that a poster came up with and he was going to try and implement it in DA - this could be a corrollary if he does that.

Reply #20 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Starbases are a little too puny in my opinion.
Reply #21 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think multiple attacks from a large hulled vessel is a good idea, and it does make sense. Smaller ships may only have one or two weapons facing in a single direction, but large ships would have multiple weapons targeting enemy ships.

However, I also believe that starbases should not be over powered. They are static platforms which should make them vulnerable to enemy attacks. An example would be the Death Star. Yes the Rebels attacked with a fleet, but ultimately only a single fighter with a single torpedo took it out. The force with Luke or not, doesn't matter. The point is, the Death Star was mobile, many powerful weapons, harnessing the power to destroy planets, as large as a moon, and was still vulnerable to a small weapon.

How you go about making them immensely powerful yet still vulnerable is beyond me. Be great if they could do it.

As far as currently? I agree. Weapon upgrades for the starbases are useless. The cash and resources are better spent building your fleet.
Reply #22 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Bad analogy! Since when do oil rigs receive all sorts of military upgrades?


If you broaden the analogy to modern warfare in general, though, it makes sense. When was the last time any country built a coastal fortress? By the end of the 19th Century, increasing seapower had rendered the concept obsolete. Nowdays if you're worried about naval invasion, it still makes sense to set up some coastal batteries, but you wouldn't expect them to survive very long. The only defense against a fleet is another fleet. Phasors and shields and black hole guns won't change that balance. I can't remember the last time I put a military upgrade of any kind on a starbase, just as I never use planetary/orbital defense improvements. The only military builds that make sense at all are warships and transports, period.
Reply #23 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Actually, I think the solution can be simple....Starbases should have a great addition of "hit points"...that way it would allow them to actually use the weapons they have over and over again. Say...give them 10 times the hps they have now. Mod anyone?
Reply #25 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I get where people think that military starbases should be able to defend themselves, but they aren't meant to fight, they are meant to boost the attack and defense power of nearby ships, it's up to you to defend your starbases. Now I do agree that there should be a type of starbase that is meant ONLY for fighting (if there was a starbase that boosted stats as well as being overly powerfull it would make regular ships obsolete).